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churches and taxes (Read 5944 times)
freediver
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churches and taxes
Nov 27th, 2011 at 3:27pm
 
Further to recent discussions about churches and tax breaks, it is my understanding that donations made directly to churches (eg collection plate, tithing etc) are not tax deductable. Money used to purchase and maintain church property and buildings is not tax deductable. Specific charities associated with churches are tax deductable and have far stricter government interference.

To put this in perspective, union fees/dues are tax deductable, so unions get a far better deal than religions.
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longweekend58
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #1 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 3:27pm:
Further to recent discussions about churches and tax breaks, it is my understanding that donations made directly to churches (eg collection plate, tithing etc) are not tax deductable. Money used to purchase and maintain church property and buildings is not tax deductable. Specific charities associated with churches are tax deductable and have far stricter government interference.

To put this in perspective, union fees/dues are tax deductable, so unions get a far better deal than religions.


this is correct. In the usual hysterical nonsense on churches and taxes, the first thing lost is fact.

Church donations are not tax deductible. Some churches do have tax deductible non-profit charity groups which are tax deductible but tey are then subject to te same autid and tax responsibilities as any other non-profit organisation.

Church owned and run businesses are taxed in the same manner as every other company in the country.

the ONLY exception the church gets other  than everyone else is a consitutional (I think) exemption of paying tax for 'religious observance' this means that expenses in runing religous services and a few associated costs are not taxable and any duties levies and taxes are refundable.

In the real world however, this amounts to very little money. it does mean stamp duty on real estate purchases are exempt but in the big scheme of things it is actually not very much money at all.

Another thing worth noting is that churches themselves are effectively non-profit organisations. legally that is not entirely accurate but for this argument it is accurate. the church doesnt belong to any one person. it belongs to the wider church at large. When a struggling church folds and its buildings and lands are sold, the money must by law (and does) go to the denomination which then uses it for the benefit of other churches. no individual benefits - just as happens in other nonprofits.

all church employess pay income tax.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #2 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:28pm
 
Are you going to bury this thread in the spirituality section as well ? If not why not ?
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Sir lastnail
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #3 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 3:27pm:
Further to recent discussions about churches and tax breaks, it is my understanding that donations made directly to churches (eg collection plate, tithing etc) are not tax deductable. Money used to purchase and maintain church property and buildings is not tax deductable. Specific charities associated with churches are tax deductable and have far stricter government interference.

To put this in perspective, union fees/dues are tax deductable, so unions get a far better deal than religions.


That's not the understanding of BRW which states:

http://hillsongchurch.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/hillsong-gods-millionaires/

Quote:
Pentecostal churches are not waiting to inherit the earth. They are taking it now, tax-free.
Business Review Weekly Magazine, Austalian/May 26, 2005
By Adele Ferguson

This weekend more than 200,000 Australians will flock to Pentecostal churches to worship God, clap, sing, speak in tongues, faith heal, and donate 10% of their pre-tax weekly earnings. Some will buy CDs, books, DVDs, mobile-phone tunes, T-shirts, fridge magnets and even a children’s DVD featuring Jesus as a superhero. Others will tune into their TV channels and web sites, visit their art galleries, schools and medical centres and even move their savings into church cash management trusts that hold millions of dollars but are unregulated. All of this is helping to fuel an industry that is turning over more than $500 million a year and growing at warp speed.

Welcome to the new, commercial breed of Christianity that is sweeping Australia and spawning churches that are among the country’s fastest-growing, most entrepreneurial and slickest enterprises. So powerful are the new Pentecostal churches that they are changing politics, influencing business, and turning their founders into millionaires.

Critics of Pentecostal churches say they look more like shopping malls than churches. But their members love it and the churches argue that their ballooning revenue is going back into the community......

Links with business are also growing. Hillsong, for example, has close links with Gloria Jean’s Coffees, one of Australia’s fastest-growing franchises (see the brains of the operation, page 41), and companies such as National Australia Bank (NAB), QBE Insurance and Aon Australia are targeting the members of these churches.

The power of the Pentecostal churches can only increase in the business world. They are tapping into the business market with religious fervour. Many offer business directories, networking groups to help members set up small businesses and network existing ones, conferences and monthly breakfasts. Phil Baker, the pastor of Riverview Church in Perth, is hosting a series of business breakfasts around the country entitled Leadership Lessons from the Roman Empire. One such breakfast, held in Melbourne in May, attracted 500 business people, including some top executives from the NAB. Christian Outreach Centre is offering its members a five-day Business Achievers conference on Daydream Island in August at a cost of $500. Its brochure says: “In just one week you will develop the strategies, skills and motivation to take your place among Australia’s eminent business leaders.”

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.



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longweekend58
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #4 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:53pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:35pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 3:27pm:
Further to recent discussions about churches and tax breaks, it is my understanding that donations made directly to churches (eg collection plate, tithing etc) are not tax deductable. Money used to purchase and maintain church property and buildings is not tax deductable. Specific charities associated with churches are tax deductable and have far stricter government interference.

To put this in perspective, union fees/dues are tax deductable, so unions get a far better deal than religions.


That's not the understanding of BRW which states:

http://hillsongchurch.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/hillsong-gods-millionaires/

Quote:
Pentecostal churches are not waiting to inherit the earth. They are taking it now, tax-free.
Business Review Weekly Magazine, Austalian/May 26, 2005
By Adele Ferguson

This weekend more than 200,000 Australians will flock to Pentecostal churches to worship God, clap, sing, speak in tongues, faith heal, and donate 10% of their pre-tax weekly earnings. Some will buy CDs, books, DVDs, mobile-phone tunes, T-shirts, fridge magnets and even a children’s DVD featuring Jesus as a superhero. Others will tune into their TV channels and web sites, visit their art galleries, schools and medical centres and even move their savings into church cash management trusts that hold millions of dollars but are unregulated. All of this is helping to fuel an industry that is turning over more than $500 million a year and growing at warp speed.

Welcome to the new, commercial breed of Christianity that is sweeping Australia and spawning churches that are among the country’s fastest-growing, most entrepreneurial and slickest enterprises. So powerful are the new Pentecostal churches that they are changing politics, influencing business, and turning their founders into millionaires.

Critics of Pentecostal churches say they look more like shopping malls than churches. But their members love it and the churches argue that their ballooning revenue is going back into the community......

Links with business are also growing. Hillsong, for example, has close links with Gloria Jean’s Coffees, one of Australia’s fastest-growing franchises (see the brains of the operation, page 41), and companies such as National Australia Bank (NAB), QBE Insurance and Aon Australia are targeting the members of these churches.

The power of the Pentecostal churches can only increase in the business world. They are tapping into the business market with religious fervour. Many offer business directories, networking groups to help members set up small businesses and network existing ones, conferences and monthly breakfasts. Phil Baker, the pastor of Riverview Church in Perth, is hosting a series of business breakfasts around the country entitled Leadership Lessons from the Roman Empire. One such breakfast, held in Melbourne in May, attracted 500 business people, including some top executives from the NAB. Christian Outreach Centre is offering its members a five-day Business Achievers conference on Daydream Island in August at a cost of $500. Its brochure says: “In just one week you will develop the strategies, skills and motivation to take your place among Australia’s eminent business leaders.”

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.





A) they are wrong or do you belive everything you read and
B) give me a list of 'pentecostal' businesses. i cant buy a pentecostal fridge, car, food or clothing.

you just hate the church. your opinion is so tainted by it to become worthless. any 'facts' you present are totally overshadowed by your bitterness and bile. You would be happy if the poor went unfed and children went unclothed so long as the church is somehow harmed. it makes you look truly sick. which you are.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #5 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:05pm
 
If the church has multiple 'arms' that are non charitable, do they pay tax on the profits?

For example a church can have a child minding centre, a men's shed and let's say an op shop.

All the arms are run as individual businesses, but they are connected to the church, do they pay tax like other businesses?
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Sir lastnail
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #6 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:15pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:53pm:
A) they are wrong or do you belive everything you read and
B) give me a list of 'pentecostal' businesses. i cant buy a pentecostal fridge, car, food or clothing.

you just hate the church. your opinion is so tainted by it to become worthless. any 'facts' you present are totally overshadowed by your bitterness and bile. You would be happy if the poor went unfed and children went unclothed so long as the church is somehow harmed. it makes you look truly sick. which you are.


A) I just don't believe you because you are totally biased because of one fake miracle cure !

I know of a church that has acquired a sizable property portfolio over the years. How come that money was siphoned off to buy property instead of going DIRECTLY to the needy !!  

Also there is a major investigation going on in the US regarding these fraudsters misappropriating church funds  and using the proceeds for their own personal benefit such as Kenneth Copeland's 20 million dollar jet !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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freediver
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #7 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:27pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:35pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 3:27pm:
Further to recent discussions about churches and tax breaks, it is my understanding that donations made directly to churches (eg collection plate, tithing etc) are not tax deductable. Money used to purchase and maintain church property and buildings is not tax deductable. Specific charities associated with churches are tax deductable and have far stricter government interference.

To put this in perspective, union fees/dues are tax deductable, so unions get a far better deal than religions.


That's not the understanding of BRW which states:

http://hillsongchurch.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/hillsong-gods-millionaires/

Quote:
Pentecostal churches are not waiting to inherit the earth. They are taking it now, tax-free.
Business Review Weekly Magazine, Austalian/May 26, 2005
By Adele Ferguson

This weekend more than 200,000 Australians will flock to Pentecostal churches to worship God, clap, sing, speak in tongues, faith heal, and donate 10% of their pre-tax weekly earnings. Some will buy CDs, books, DVDs, mobile-phone tunes, T-shirts, fridge magnets and even a children’s DVD featuring Jesus as a superhero. Others will tune into their TV channels and web sites, visit their art galleries, schools and medical centres and even move their savings into church cash management trusts that hold millions of dollars but are unregulated. All of this is helping to fuel an industry that is turning over more than $500 million a year and growing at warp speed.

Welcome to the new, commercial breed of Christianity that is sweeping Australia and spawning churches that are among the country’s fastest-growing, most entrepreneurial and slickest enterprises. So powerful are the new Pentecostal churches that they are changing politics, influencing business, and turning their founders into millionaires.

Critics of Pentecostal churches say they look more like shopping malls than churches. But their members love it and the churches argue that their ballooning revenue is going back into the community......

Links with business are also growing. Hillsong, for example, has close links with Gloria Jean’s Coffees, one of Australia’s fastest-growing franchises (see the brains of the operation, page 41), and companies such as National Australia Bank (NAB), QBE Insurance and Aon Australia are targeting the members of these churches.

The power of the Pentecostal churches can only increase in the business world. They are tapping into the business market with religious fervour. Many offer business directories, networking groups to help members set up small businesses and network existing ones, conferences and monthly breakfasts. Phil Baker, the pastor of Riverview Church in Perth, is hosting a series of business breakfasts around the country entitled Leadership Lessons from the Roman Empire. One such breakfast, held in Melbourne in May, attracted 500 business people, including some top executives from the NAB. Christian Outreach Centre is offering its members a five-day Business Achievers conference on Daydream Island in August at a cost of $500. Its brochure says: “In just one week you will develop the strategies, skills and motivation to take your place among Australia’s eminent business leaders.”

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.





Seems a bit short on detail - so short on detail that it barely says anything.
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Life_goes_on
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #8 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:56pm
 
Unless I'm missing something, wasn't the original thread about various churches not paying income tax and not whether or not money given to those churches is tax deductable?

BTW - most churches (okay Anglican and Catholic at least) provide a tax deduction form which you can enclose your collection plate offering. At the end of the financial year they send you a statement for tax purposes - just the same as what other tax deductable charities do. You are also able to claim a nominal weekly donation on your tax return without having to provide a statement or receipts.

Money donated to churches for building upkeep is most certainly tax deductable.
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Num num num num.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #9 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:27pm:
Seems a bit short on detail - so short on detail that it barely says anything.


so where's your details ??
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Bobby.
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2011 at 7:09pm
 
Nail,
Quote:
Also there is a major investigation going on in the US regarding these fraudsters
misappropriating church funds  and using the proceeds for their own personal benefit
such as Kenneth Copeland's 20 million dollar jet !!


Good post Nail,
The whole lot should be thrown in jail.
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longweekend58
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 7:00am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:05pm:
If the church has multiple 'arms' that are non charitable, do they pay tax on the profits?

For example a church can have a child minding centre, a men's shed and let's say an op shop.

All the arms are run as individual businesses, but they are connected to the church, do they pay tax like other businesses?


yes they do. IN fact our church runs a day care center ant it is a registered business staffed by paid employees.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 7:05am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:15pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:53pm:
A) they are wrong or do you belive everything you read and
B) give me a list of 'pentecostal' businesses. i cant buy a pentecostal fridge, car, food or clothing.

you just hate the church. your opinion is so tainted by it to become worthless. any 'facts' you present are totally overshadowed by your bitterness and bile. You would be happy if the poor went unfed and children went unclothed so long as the church is somehow harmed. it makes you look truly sick. which you are.


A) I just don't believe you because you are totally biased because of one fake miracle cure !

I know of a church that has acquired a sizable property portfolio over the years. How come that money was siphoned off to buy property instead of going DIRECTLY to the needy !!   

Also there is a major investigation going on in the US regarding these fraudsters misappropriating church funds  and using the proceeds for their own personal benefit such as Kenneth Copeland's 20 million dollar jet !!



well for starters the money came from donations that werent tax deductible. that gives the church the right to do whatever they want with the money, just liek ANY GROUP that sets up and uses its own money for its own purposes. they are not legally bound to do anything specific with the money. so yoru argument is void.  only when there is tax deductibility does there develop rules about what must be done with the money.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 7:07am
 
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:56pm:
Unless I'm missing something, wasn't the original thread about various churches not paying income tax and not whether or not money given to those churches is tax deductable?

BTW - most churches (okay Anglican and Catholic at least) provide a tax deduction form which you can enclose your collection plate offering. At the end of the financial year they send you a statement for tax purposes - just the same as what other tax deductable charities do. You are also able to claim a nominal weekly donation on your tax return without having to provide a statement or receipts.

Money donated to churches for building upkeep is most certainly tax deductable.


again it is ONLY for donatios for the church building as part of the 'religious observance' exemption. donations for any other part of church operations are not deductible.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: churches and taxes
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 9:52am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 7:05am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 6:15pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 5:53pm:
A) they are wrong or do you belive everything you read and
B) give me a list of 'pentecostal' businesses. i cant buy a pentecostal fridge, car, food or clothing.

you just hate the church. your opinion is so tainted by it to become worthless. any 'facts' you present are totally overshadowed by your bitterness and bile. You would be happy if the poor went unfed and children went unclothed so long as the church is somehow harmed. it makes you look truly sick. which you are.


A) I just don't believe you because you are totally biased because of one fake miracle cure !

I know of a church that has acquired a sizable property portfolio over the years. How come that money was siphoned off to buy property instead of going DIRECTLY to the needy !!  

Also there is a major investigation going on in the US regarding these fraudsters misappropriating church funds  and using the proceeds for their own personal benefit such as Kenneth Copeland's 20 million dollar jet !!



well for starters the money came from donations that werent tax deductible. that gives the church the right to do whatever they want with the money, just liek ANY GROUP that sets up and uses its own money for its own purposes. they are not legally bound to do anything specific with the money. so yoru argument is void.  only when there is tax deductibility does there develop rules about what must be done with the money.



like buying a riverside mansion and a 20 million dollar private jet to use for holidays Wink

why would anyone donate money to a so called "CHARITABLE" institution  that misappropriates that money and uses it to buy investment properties instead of looking after the needy which is what it was intended for ??

You must think people are completely stupid !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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