corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 6:27pm:


What rewards were there for the average jane doe prior to capitalism?

bobbigege wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 5:27pm:



Absolutely correcto! it's already happening in the US and as we are the 51st state, we will follow.

They are already filtering the uni system into high school, doing first year uni and year 12 combined.

Education is good, but I think by forcing everyone to go to higher levels than they would want to if left to their own devices, the standard gets pushed lower.

Some people are just not studious, so there is no reason to force them to go on at school or uni. It's like forcing someone to do sport, unless they want to it's not going to work.

Sappho wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 6:42pm:

There's a difference?  Are you attempting humor?

Bobby. wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 6:52pm:

Purity and capitalism is a strange combination.  Society can do without shareholder capitalists, but shareholder capitalists cannot do without hard workers to flog to an early penniless death so that the `1% can be rich.  A civil society shares.

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:



Whitey - you have replied to me but said nothing about solo mothers -
instead it's a lunatic sounding rave about shares -
are you on drugs or maybe you're drunk?

TONY Abbott has declared only the "right kids" should stay at school beyond year 10, saying the rest could be wasting their time.   

The Opposition Leader said he had doubts about a federal government incentive scheme to get more teenagers to stay in school.

“The other point I want to make is that it's all very well keeping kids at school past year 10 but they've got to be the right kids being kept at school past year 10,” he told radio 2UE.   

“A lot of kids would probably be better off in the long run leaving school at year 10 and getting an apprenticeship.”

Under the new incentive scheme, parents can qualify for extra family payments - worth an average of $4000 - if their children stay on to finish year 12.

Mr Abbott said many young people would do better outside the mainstream education in specialist technical schools - a point argued by the former Howard government.


He said he was “far from confident” about the federal government's ability to ensure the widespread availability of school-based apprenticeships.

“I mean, one of the great initiatives of the Howard government was to try to foster these school-based apprenticeships to try to get back to a considerable extent towards, if you like, technical high schools,” he said.

“And I guess I'd want to carefully study this and make sure that the right kids are getting the money and that we really were keeping the right kids at school, because if you've got the wrong kids at school it can end up like a glorified occupational therapy, basically.”

Families Minister Jenny Macklin said Mr Abbott, who had previously supported the education tax bonus, wanted to take money from the pockets of families.   

“He is saying that only certain children, only the `right' sort of children, should stay on in secondary school and other children should go out to work.

“Mr Abbott really needs to explain ... which of these teenagers don't deserve support.”

The incentive plan, promised at the 2010 election, will reward parents of 16 to 19-year-olds if their children stay at school until year 12.

Payments, to start on January 1, will be delivered through an income-tested boost to Family Tax Benefit A.

Students would have to stay in full-time secondary school study or a vocational equivalent such as a TAFE course.


Comments on this story

    J of Perth Posted at 4:08 PM Today

       What is this guy thinking? Perhaps he is good example of access to education being wasted on some people. He only needs to mostly keep his ideas to himself for a couple of years, keep attacking the other mob, and he is a sure thing to lead the next government. Tony, this is dumb on so many levels. If people want to finsh school you definately should if they don't, then don't (but be prepared to compete for the better jobs with people who have higher education levels). Simple.   

    Graham of Fremantle Posted at 4:02 PM Today

       By the end of primary school children should be able to read, write and do arithmetic (add, subtract, multiply, divide, fractions). Very few jobs actually require more than this, and I say this as someone who has undertaken a mechanical apprenticeship, run a retail store, completed an engineering degree and contemplated a PhD. When I started my apprenticeship in 1980 competition meant that companies were starting to look at students who had completed year 11 (which I had) rather than just year 10 yet I don't recall needing any of the knowledge I had gained in year 11 during my apprenticeship.   

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:


So there is no past era in all the human history that gives to the ordinary folk a better quality of living than shareholder capitalism does eh?

Thought as much.

Now... on to the next point. Are you suggesting that by removing the share holder component of capitalism, you make the working world of our common or garden variety of jane doe a better working place in which to live?

Yes you are... but you don't say how that would be possible. Surely you must have reasons to support your claims.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 6:37pm:


Yes, this is correct. I'm old enough  to remember when a School Certificate was the main qualification to get a person into almost any field they wanted. HSC was for those intending to study at university. Unfortunately successive governments have pushed the idea the an HSC is the basic requirement for all students. This fallacy, AFIK introduced to solve a perceived problem in youth unemployment by keeping them at school for two more years, has created more problems than it has solved.