My feeling is that this incident is the last thing anybody in government in the West wants. They want out of Afghanistan because they can't afford it.

On the other hand destabalising is what the CIA do. I have no doubt that they are behind the uprisings across the arab world, especially Syria. That's not to say that the people in Egypt and Tunisia needed much encouragement. But I don't believe in 'spontaneous revolution', revolutions require planning and capital expenditure. There's evidence of a deal of American involvement in the orange revolutions in the Ukraine and other ex USSR satellites and before the Tiananmen student protests.

The course of events in Syria looks a lot like a lot of pushing is going on. That said I think the Al-Assad regime has been, (apart from muderous) silly. If they'd called elections from the outet the likelehood is that they'd have won. And even if they'd lost they'd have been back in after a term in opposition. But of course dictators dictate, like the CIA, they're stuck in the rut of 'that's the way its always been done around here'.

Which is probably what's going on in Iran, a big brouhaha that fizzles, maybe some deals and concessions made behind the scenes.

Quote:


It's way different, Grey.

The revolutions were sparked by people using social media to get the word out about terrible injustices. Khaled Said's murder by the police because of his evidence of their corruption, and the resulting 'We Are all Khaled Said' movement were explosive.

The same with Bouazizi in Tunisia. It was the president's visit to the boy's bedside that started the main protest, if I remember correctly. It was certainly his self-immolation that got people going.

There was no Facebook or Twitter for Tiananmen Square.

But even that one dude - the anonymous guy who stood in front of the tank - was enough to shake the world up.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 12:44pm:


There's not much difference between factions of power operating in the USA and those of Pakistan. The desired outcome for the civilian government may be quite different to the desires of the military industrial complex; though at times they coincide. The USA has a pathological fear of any form of socialism.

Socialisms strongest base is in the Spanish speaking world, a world that shares the American continent. An effective and successful South America is a situation the USA finds intolerable. Learning from the experience of the British Empire it judged dominance as more achievable by keeping potential rivals weak than by encorporating them into an empire. Keeping rivals fighting each other is a lot more effective than fighting them, especially when you are the supplyer of arms to both sides. So fermenting revolution is core CIA business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

Grey wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:



Yes, during the Cold War maybe.....when the USSR had a lot of influence in South America (and was actively and covertly funding the Socialist revolutionaries)...But what's the reason for thinking that everything wrong in the world, be it internal strife in countries (with some pretty nasty regimes for the most part) or the corner shop having no milk....is a CIA plot???

Have you just considered that a lot of the strife is due to the internet revolution, and the people finding out that other systems are not as harsh as they've be lead to believe??

<<Have you just considered that a lot of the strife is due to the internet revolution, and the people finding out that other systems are not as harsh as they've be lead to believe?? >>
...........................................................

I'm sure they've known that for some time gizmo.

The internet caused the Arab Spring uprisings to grow quickly, but there were much bigger underlying matters than just that. They've had the internet for longer than we have, tv, radio and newspapers, they know what's going on in the rest of the world.

They've known for decades that the West has loose morals and wear bikini's to the beach. I'm sure they knew that the biggest porn industry comes out of America. If they wanted to be like the west they would have ripped their head scarves off at the protests. They want to be Muslims.

They don't want pro western rule or they would have stuck with Mubarak who was put there by the military. They don't want the American backed leaders to rule them.

They would probably like some type of democracy, but to be able to have a hand in that themselves. They want the right to self determination, just like we want.

Trying to suggest that for most of their lives they have been ignorant is pretty insulting.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 3:43pm:


And assuming that countries that routinely censor newspapers and tv would allow 'free and unfettered' internet access is somewhat naive...

Add to that, the concept that a lot of people couldn't afford to buy computers or pay for landline internet access as well, and it should become fair clear that it wasn't until wireless internet and internet capable mobile phones became cheap and common that these things really took off...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:


I agree, polite requests weren't part of the Zionist agenda.

Grey wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 12:41pm:


Nonsense - Assad had too much blood on his hands -
he knew he'd either be on trial or killed.