Australian Politics Forum - Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy

juliar

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Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:02pm

Bob Brown windy farms a bit like the Labor party - a lot of noise but not much useful output.

Noisy wind farms breach environmental laws, according to submission to NSW Planning
AAP December 19, 2011 12:33PM

WIND farms are breaching NSW environmental laws with excessive noise causing sleep loss, stress and other health problems, it is claimed.

The claims are made in a submission to NSW Planning by a group opposed to plans for a wind farm in Flyers Creek, near Orange in the state's central west.

"There is a pattern of systematic non-compliance by wind farms with audible and inaudible noise going beyond agreed allowable limits," the report's author, rural GP and farmer Dr Alan Watts said.

"That has real impacts on the health of people living near turbines, such as sleep deprivation and stress."

Cabinet is meeting this week to consider guidelines that will determine the future of wind power in NSW.

About 20 applications for new farms have been put on hold while the government decides how to balance competing interests.

Lindsay Soutar, a campaigner for community group 100% Renewable, said the issue was a test of the government's credibility.

"It would be completely out of step with community opinion if Barry O'Farrell and his cabinet turn their back on wind power in NSW," she said.

"Decisions are being made right now that will affect the potential for thousands of new jobs and billions of dollars worth of investment in NSW."

But Dr Watts, a campaigner for the Flyers Creek Wind Turbine Awareness Group, said the government had a duty of care to people.

The group tested noise levels at the Capital Wind Farm near Lake George in NSW and found significant noise impacts above that predicted for the wind farm.

A report surmised the Flyers Creek wind farm would generate offensive noise, have a significant impact on residents and breach the NSW Protection of the Environment Operation Act.

"It is scandalous that it took the community to put in place and pay for the noise monitoring that has uncovered this systematic non-compliance by the wind industry," Dr Watts said.

"Wind farms should be strictly monitored.

"If they are unable to comply by producing excessive noise then they should be shut down and removed."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/noisy-wind-farms-breach-environ...

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Gist

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #1 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:38pm

juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:02pm:

Bob Brown windy farms a bit like the Labor party - a lot of noise but not much useful output.

Noisy wind farms breach environmental laws, according to submission to NSW Planning
AAP December 19, 2011 12:33PM

WIND farms are breaching NSW environmental laws with excessive noise causing sleep loss, stress and other health problems, it is claimed.

The claims are made in a submission to NSW Planning by a group opposed to plans for a wind farm in Flyers Creek, near Orange in the state's central west.

"There is a pattern of systematic non-compliance by wind farms with audible and inaudible noise going beyond agreed allowable limits," the report's author, rural GP and farmer Dr Alan Watts said.

"That has real impacts on the health of people living near turbines, such as sleep deprivation and stress."

Cabinet is meeting this week to consider guidelines that will determine the future of wind power in NSW.

About 20 applications for new farms have been put on hold while the government decides how to balance competing interests.

Lindsay Soutar, a campaigner for community group 100% Renewable, said the issue was a test of the government's credibility.

"It would be completely out of step with community opinion if Barry O'Farrell and his cabinet turn their back on wind power in NSW," she said.

"Decisions are being made right now that will affect the potential for thousands of new jobs and billions of dollars worth of investment in NSW."

But Dr Watts, a campaigner for the Flyers Creek Wind Turbine Awareness Group, said the government had a duty of care to people.

The group tested noise levels at the Capital Wind Farm near Lake George in NSW and found significant noise impacts above that predicted for the wind farm.

A report surmised the Flyers Creek wind farm would generate offensive noise, have a significant impact on residents and breach the NSW Protection of the Environment Operation Act.

"It is scandalous that it took the community to put in place and pay for the noise monitoring that has uncovered this systematic non-compliance by the wind industry," Dr Watts said.

"Wind farms should be strictly monitored.

"If they are unable to comply by producing excessive noise then they should be shut down and removed."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/noisy-wind-farms-breach-environ...

If they'd stopped their incessant whining when they were doing those tests the results would likely have shown no noise at all.

What kind of fool would publish information from a pressure group as gospel? What kind of fool would believe such rubbish?

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #2 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:14pm

<<What kind of fool would publish information from a pressure group as gospel? What kind of fool would believe such rubbish? >>
........................................................

A fool called Juliar.

The wind farms only make the people who don't have them on their farms sick.

The people who have them don't get the ill effects for some strange reason.

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longweekend58

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #3 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:14pm

Gist wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:38pm:

juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:02pm:

Bob Brown windy farms a bit like the Labor party - a lot of noise but not much useful output.

Noisy wind farms breach environmental laws, according to submission to NSW Planning
AAP December 19, 2011 12:33PM

WIND farms are breaching NSW environmental laws with excessive noise causing sleep loss, stress and other health problems, it is claimed.

The claims are made in a submission to NSW Planning by a group opposed to plans for a wind farm in Flyers Creek, near Orange in the state's central west.

"There is a pattern of systematic non-compliance by wind farms with audible and inaudible noise going beyond agreed allowable limits," the report's author, rural GP and farmer Dr Alan Watts said.

"That has real impacts on the health of people living near turbines, such as sleep deprivation and stress."

Cabinet is meeting this week to consider guidelines that will determine the future of wind power in NSW.

About 20 applications for new farms have been put on hold while the government decides how to balance competing interests.

Lindsay Soutar, a campaigner for community group 100% Renewable, said the issue was a test of the government's credibility.

"It would be completely out of step with community opinion if Barry O'Farrell and his cabinet turn their back on wind power in NSW," she said.

"Decisions are being made right now that will affect the potential for thousands of new jobs and billions of dollars worth of investment in NSW."

But Dr Watts, a campaigner for the Flyers Creek Wind Turbine Awareness Group, said the government had a duty of care to people.

The group tested noise levels at the Capital Wind Farm near Lake George in NSW and found significant noise impacts above that predicted for the wind farm.

A report surmised the Flyers Creek wind farm would generate offensive noise, have a significant impact on residents and breach the NSW Protection of the Environment Operation Act.

"It is scandalous that it took the community to put in place and pay for the noise monitoring that has uncovered this systematic non-compliance by the wind industry," Dr Watts said.

"Wind farms should be strictly monitored.

"If they are unable to comply by producing excessive noise then they should be shut down and removed."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/noisy-wind-farms-breach-environ...

If they'd stopped their incessant whining when they were doing those tests the results would likely have shown no noise at all.

What kind of fool would publish information from a pressure group as gospel? What kind of fool would believe such rubbish?

and what kind of fool automatically dismisses it just because it comes from a lobby group?

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #4 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:14pm:

what kind of fool automatically dismisses it just because it comes from a lobby group?

It depends on who is financing them

Example ...

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 16^th, 2011 at 4:19pm:

We have small contingent of 'ELSIE DEININGERS' here in Victoria
Under the name -

LANDSCAPE GUARDIANS

- they travel Victoria and South Australia disrupting public meetings, information seminars, AGM's and first 'sod turnings'

That's a few of them in the last photo at the Hepburn Wind site
This is a small, close-knit community - so it's a good thing there were no locals among them

In their spare time they run an ongoing letter writing campaign to anyone that will publish them - much like 'our Elsie'

Also, like Elsie, they have NO qualifications or evidence to back their string of claims

Australian Landscape Guardians was started by - and bankrolled by Peter Mitchell, a founding chairman of the Moonie Oil Company and now chairman of Lowell Pty Ltd, which runs an investment fund focused on oil, gas and minerals.

It's ALWAYS gets interesting when you follow the paper trail

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juliar

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #5 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:36pm

It was not so long ago that all and sundry were trumpeting the advantages of CSG as the answer to a green frog's dream.

It is a different story now as the rather nasty truth starts to emerge as real actual experience is gained from actual CSG installations.

The windy farm situation is starting to resemble the CSG experience as actual experience is gained from real operating windy farms.

In both cases in the early days the deniers of any possible problem were easy to find. Now the reality is that the deniers numbers are starting to dwindle.

Perhaps if the sweet bodies, who find that they suffer from distressing nervous tension when they are exposed to cold hard truth, were to lie on their stomachs on the floor and hit the floor with both of their fists they would feel much better.

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Gist

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #6 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:14pm:

and what kind of fool automatically dismisses it just because it comes from a lobby group?

The kind of fool who would immediately assume that a lobby group has a barrow to push. The kind of fool who wouldn't believe the claims of the tobacco companies, for instance. The kind of fool who would want unbiased information before bleating loudly. In other words, the kind of fool who has a modicum of common sense and a healthy dose of scepticism when it comes to lobby groups.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #7 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:51pm

[quote author=6B746D686073010 link=1324270974/5#5 date=1324276614]

It is a different story now as the rather nasty truth starts to emerge as real actual experience is gained from actual CSG installations.

The windy farm situation is starting to resemble the CSG experience as actual experience is gained from real operating windy farms.

In both cases in the early days the deniers of any possible problem were easy to find. Now the reality is that the deniers numbers are starting to dwindle.

quote]

Wind power provided 18.9% of electricity production and 24.1% of generation capacity in Denmark in 2008

Denmark was a pioneer in developing commercial wind power during the
1970s
, and today almost half of the wind turbines around the world are produced by Danish manufacturers such as Vestas and Siemens Wind Power along with many component suppliers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Denmark

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy Reply #8 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:54pm I hate to do this but how about the claims from the asbestos lobby - those of whom are still alive ?
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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy Reply #9 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:03pm juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:54pm: I hate to do this but how about the claims from the asbestos lobby - those of whom are still alive ? There is plenty of unbiased evidence supporting the harmful effects of asbestos. Where is the equivalent for windfarm noise?
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #10 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:05pm

juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:54pm:

I hate to do this but how about the claims from the asbestos lobby - those of whom are still alive ?

Tony Abbott is the authority on asbestos victims ...

Health Minister Tony Abbott has refused to back away from his criticism of terminally-ill asbestos campaigner Bernie Banton's petition as a "stunt", despite apologising to him this morning.

Mr Banton, the face of asbestos-disease sufferers, said yesterday he was "infuriated'' when the Health Minister was not in his Sydney office to accept a petition pushing for a mesothelioma drug to be placed on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS).

Mr Abbott, visiting a Melbourne medical clinic today with Prime Minister John Howard and Treasurer Peter Costello, refused to back away from his criticism of Mr Banton.

He told reporters in Blackburn that both he and Mr Banton "were both a bit hot under the collar yesterday and both regretted it".

Earlier, he told SkyNews: "He (Banton) is a sick man and obviously he has the moral high ground."

Mr Abbott had accused Mr Banton of not being "pure of heart" when he spoke of his anger at the Health Minister's no-show.

Yesterday, Mr Abbott was quick to dismiss the petition. "It was a stunt," he had told the Nine Network.

"Let's be upfront about this. I know Bernie is very sick, but just because a person is sick doesn't necessarily mean that he is pure of heart in all things."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/federalelection2007news/abbott-sorry-for-banton-sl...

( ... and I wasn't aware that asbestos inhaled - and harnessing the power of wind - had all that much in common ?)

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #11 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:06pm

juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 4:54pm:

I hate to do this but how about the claims from the asbestos lobby - those of whom are still alive ?

They had some substance behind them to back their claims.

Was Tony Abbott a CSR (asbestos) supporter? You'd think so by the way he treated Bernie Banton.

There's not much substance to wind, except some wind bags.

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andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #12 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:24pm

Gist wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:38pm:

juliar wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 3:02pm:

Bob Brown windy farms a bit like the Labor party - a lot of noise but not much useful output.

Noisy wind farms breach environmental laws, according to submission to NSW Planning
AAP December 19, 2011 12:33PM

WIND farms are breaching NSW environmental laws with excessive noise causing sleep loss, stress and other health problems, it is claimed.

The claims are made in a submission to NSW Planning by a group opposed to plans for a wind farm in Flyers Creek, near Orange in the state's central west.

"There is a pattern of systematic non-compliance by wind farms with audible and inaudible noise going beyond agreed allowable limits," the report's author, rural GP and farmer Dr Alan Watts said.

"That has real impacts on the health of people living near turbines, such as sleep deprivation and stress."

Cabinet is meeting this week to consider guidelines that will determine the future of wind power in NSW.

About 20 applications for new farms have been put on hold while the government decides how to balance competing interests.

Lindsay Soutar, a campaigner for community group 100% Renewable, said the issue was a test of the government's credibility.

"It would be completely out of step with community opinion if Barry O'Farrell and his cabinet turn their back on wind power in NSW," she said.

"Decisions are being made right now that will affect the potential for thousands of new jobs and billions of dollars worth of investment in NSW."

But Dr Watts, a campaigner for the Flyers Creek Wind Turbine Awareness Group, said the government had a duty of care to people.

The group tested noise levels at the Capital Wind Farm near Lake George in NSW and found significant noise impacts above that predicted for the wind farm.

A report surmised the Flyers Creek wind farm would generate offensive noise, have a significant impact on residents and breach the NSW Protection of the Environment Operation Act.

"It is scandalous that it took the community to put in place and pay for the noise monitoring that has uncovered this systematic non-compliance by the wind industry," Dr Watts said.

"Wind farms should be strictly monitored.

"If they are unable to comply by producing excessive noise then they should be shut down and removed."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/noisy-wind-farms-breach-environ...

If they'd stopped their incessant whining when they were doing those tests the results would likely have shown no noise at all.

What kind of fool would publish information from a pressure group as gospel? What kind of fool would believe such rubbish?

I think the easy answer is use the wind turbines that don't make noise...someone posted about them a few weeks back...instead of 3 blades, it has a mesh system and turns to face the wind direction... (could be a CSIRO design???)

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #13 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:28pm

I found an information page for you, juliar

Using the wind to create electricity has been around for a long time - you've probably seen windmills on farms. When the wind turns the blades of a windmill, it spins a turbine inside a small generator to produce electricity, just like a big coal power plant.

A windmill on a farm can make only a small amount of electricity - enough to power a few farm machines. To make enough electricity to serve lots of people, power companies build "wind farms" with dozens of huge wind turbines.

Wind farms are built in flat, open areas where the wind blows at least 14 miles per hour. Iowa currently has more than 600 wind turbines, producing enough electricity to power 140,000 homes. Minnesota and Wisconsin are also home to wind farms - and the number is growing every day.

Some schools in the Midwest have their own wind farms! In Spirit Lake, Iowa, the school playground is right underneath two wind turbines.

http://www.alliantenergykids.com/EnergyandTheEnvironment/RenewableEnergy/022397

( ... I HOPE it's not TOO "high tech. ?)

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longweekend58

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #14 - Dec 19^th, 2011 at 7:26pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 19^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

I found an information page for you, juliar

Using the wind to create electricity has been around for a long time - you've probably seen windmills on farms. When the wind turns the blades of a windmill, it spins a turbine inside a small generator to produce electricity, just like a big coal power plant.

A windmill on a farm can make only a small amount of electricity - enough to power a few farm machines. To make enough electricity to serve lots of people, power companies build "wind farms" with dozens of huge wind turbines.

Wind farms are built in flat, open areas where the wind blows at least 14 miles per hour. Iowa currently has more than 600 wind turbines, producing enough electricity to power 140,000 homes. Minnesota and Wisconsin are also home to wind farms - and the number is growing every day.

Some schools in the Midwest have their own wind farms! In Spirit Lake, Iowa, the school playground is right underneath two wind turbines.

http://www.alliantenergykids.com/EnergyandTheEnvironment/RenewableEnergy/022397

a correction tho. the windmills on farms are predominantly water pumps from underground acquifers. and look at the source of your info... you really think you are going to get a unbiased view on wind farms from a wind farm company???

( ... I HOPE it's not TOO "high tech. ?)

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