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Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy (Read 17713 times)
Lobo
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #15 - Dec 19th, 2011 at 7:31pm
 
juliar wrote on Dec 19th, 2011 at 4:36pm:
It was not so long ago that all and sundry were trumpeting the advantages of CSG as the answer to a green frog's dream.

It is a different story now as the rather nasty truth starts to emerge as real actual experience is gained from actual CSG installations.

The windy farm situation is starting to resemble the CSG experience as actual experience is gained from real operating windy farms.

In both cases in the early days the deniers of any possible problem were easy to find. Now the reality is that the deniers numbers are starting to dwindle.

Perhaps if the sweet bodies, who find that they suffer from distressing nervous tension when they are exposed to cold hard truth, were to lie on their stomachs on the floor and hit the floor with both of their fists they would feel much better.



Who were these 'all and sundry'?
Were they perhaps Vested Interests??
Smiley

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #16 - Dec 19th, 2011 at 8:37pm
 
Governments in New South Wales and Victoria are showing their contempt for wind power. It’s flying in the face of all the big investment trends and seriously threatens a burgeoning industry.

New South Wales Premier Barry O’Farrell has expressed his disdain for wind energy saying he hopes the State does not give approval for any more wind farms. He says 19 wind farm applications were received before the election and none since.
"I'm told no new applications have been lodged. ( ...there are actually 19 being delayed)

We haven't approved any applications and if I had my way we wouldn't," O'Farrell said.

So much for a renewable energy policy in Australia’s most populated state.

In Victoria, Premier Ted Baillieu has announced the strictest planning laws for wind farms in Australia that will give households power to veto wind turbines within two kilometres of their homes, ban turbines in the Macedon and McHarg ranges, in the Yarra Valley, on the Mornington and Bellarine peninsulas, and within five kilometres of the Great Ocean Road and the Bass Coast and prohibit them within five kilometres of 21 Victorian regional centres.
This will cost Victoria billions of dollars and thousands of jobs.
( ... this investment dollar has now been embraced by the South Australian Government - negotiated by former Premier Rann)

More to the point, it’s easier now to build a coal mine in Victoria than it is to set up a wind farm.


The Hepburn Community Wind Farm, which two months ago won an annual Premier's Sustainability Award, would not have been built under Baillieu's more stringent regulations. The farm, operating at Leonard's Hill since June, is expected to generate more than enough power for the town's 2000 homes.

Wind power does have some problems. It’s highly variable in terms of supply, and output can vary by as much as 70 per cent. There are also issues of cost, finding the right location and commercial viability. But when combined with solar, geothermal and other renewable energies, it’s a powerful part of the mix. Wind energy is the future and governments who restrict it are out of touch with the times and the community.


http://www.gmagazine.com.au/blog/2724/wind-politics




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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #17 - Dec 19th, 2011 at 8:39pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:56pm:
Verge wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 12:12pm:
I have just received an email from
Hepburn Wind
...



Quote:
Turbines almost here...

The cargo ship 'SE Panthea' left Singapore on Australia Day and is expected to dock in Albany today.

The ship will arrive in Melbourne in approximately two weeks, where the turbines will clear customs and undergo a series of checks before being transported up to Leonards Hill.

We poured the first foundation last Thursday, and the second is being poured as this newsletter is being sent. We're delighted that almost all the concrete came from the local batching plant in Daylesford - their busiest day ever.









SUCK IT UP, Baillieu !


You won't be shutting THIS project down






Special thanks to former Planning Minister, Justin Madden, who fast tracked the approvals for all of Victoria's outstanding renewable energy projects before the incoming government could cancel them




Good luck, South Australia, in taking on any new projects



Good for you that you have got your wind turbines, but Ballieu made no promises to shut down existing projects that already had approval.

So its a non event.




But he WILL be making things VERY difficult for NEW applications by renewable energy companies

They were very easily wooed by Premier Rann - as a result of new policy
South Australia is now their focus

Well, I guess we "stole" their Grand Prix






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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #18 - Dec 19th, 2011 at 9:35pm
 
... and ALL that investment dollar, NSW's and Victoria's for the taking ?





An Indian company is planning to develop one of the world's biggest wind farms on Yorke Peninsula in South Australia.

Suzlon Energy Australia says the $1.3 billion wind farm is to be built 20 kilometres south-west of Ardrossan.

It says up to 180 turbines will generate 600 megawatts of energy and deliver power to 225,000 homes in Adelaide via an undersea cable.

The project is expected to create 500 construction jobs and 50 ongoing jobs and be completed by the end of 2015.

Suzlon Energy Australia commercial director Chris Judd said the company was approached by local land owners last year.

"It's basically been a land owner-developed project and this has been a dream of theirs for over seven years now so the beauty of this project is that it does come with some seven years of homework and data etcetera behind it to help justify its economics," he said.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-31/wind-farm-suzlon-energy/2863400




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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #19 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 8:54am
 
I know businesses that operate in residential areas are not allowed to produce noice 5 decibles above background noise at the residential premises.

So, as long as these wind farms arent being built too close to residential properties that exceed this, what is the problem?
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #20 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 9:50am
 
Windy farm noise as irritating as Miss Gillard's vile vocals - but you can't turn the windy whirlers off.

Wind turbine syndrome – genuine affliction or just a load of noise?


Wind turbines are often billed as one of the world’s best solutions to climate change. And why not? They are a mature and effective means of generating large amounts of electricity with next to zero carbon emissions. In fact, they are so effective that many more wind farms are planned to be installed…

Author  Senior Lecturer, School of Mechanical Engineering at University of Adelaide
Dr Con Doolan receives funding from the Australian Research Council.

We need quieter wind farms that don’t annoy the neighbours. AAP

Wind turbines are often billed as one of the world’s best solutions to climate change.

And why not?

They are a mature and effective means of generating large amounts of electricity with next to zero carbon emissions. In fact, they are so effective that many more wind farms are planned to be installed over the next 10-30 years.

But the wind energy story is not all rosy. As more wind farms have been installed, there have been an increasing number of complaints from those who live nearby.

Sleeplessness, headaches and high blood pressure are just a few of the symptoms, collectively known as “Wind Turbine Syndrome”, reported by residents who live within a few kilometres of the turbines.

Given the level of financial and political investment in wind energy, “Wind Turbine Syndrome” is a controversial and emotional issue.

It is fiercely denied by wind farm operators and wind energy industry groups. Those who claim their health has been compromised by wind turbines are equally passionate.

Regardless of this intense debate, we know that wind turbines do produce noise and this is limiting our ability to produce green energy. The challenge is to be clever enough to do something about it.

So what causes wind turbine noise?

Most wind turbine noise is generated via aerodynamic means and the dominant form of noise is what is technically known as “airfoil self noise” or the noise created by the rotor blades as they slice through the air.

Most of this type of noise is generated by a quirk of nature that makes the turbulent flow in the region close to the trailing edge (known as the boundary layer) radiate sound much more efficiently, thus making it loud enough to be heard considerable distances from the turbine.

By itself, airfoil noise is “broadband” or contains many frequencies and sounds similar to a hiss. But this type of noise is also very directional, so as the blade rotates, a listener on the ground will hear this hiss-like noise increase and decrease with time.

This is known as blade swish and is one of the reasons why wind turbine noise has been found to be so annoying.

Wind turbines can be made quieter but in order to do so we need to first understand the complicated physics behind the noise.

We need to study turbine aerodynamics and acoustics in more detail so we can create new computer models of wind turbine noise, and how it propagates in the atmosphere.

Such models can then be used to design new quiet wind turbine blades and possibly, whole wind farms.

It will allow engineers and scientists to model the noise created by wind farms and study how they interact, thus providing more detailed planning and operational guidelines than are presently used.

Currently, there are different planning guidelines in each state, with some governments requiring wind farms to be placed more two kilometres away from the nearest human residence.

In many cases, this makes a wind farm economically unviable, due to a lack of electrical transmission infrastructure in remote regions.

If we want to use wind power to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we need to understand and control the noise from wind turbines better.

Relying on existing technology appears to be creating expensive health and litigation problems that will only get worse as the number of wind farms increase.

There is an incredible opportunity to invest in research and development in this area now, solve these important problems and create a new industry that provides quiet wind power solutions for the 21st century.

http://theconversation.edu.au/wind-turbine-syndrome-genuine-affliction-or-just-a...
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #21 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 9:56am
 
I've BEEN there





From the Daylesford/Ballan Road ( ... HALF the distance from the nearest complaintent) any "noise" is inaudible


At 500 metres - when pointed out to me - I could "make it out"




...


Standing DIRECTLY UNDER the turbine, I would describe it as
the sound of a truck or bus passing by ( ... minus the engine, or tyre to road sound)
once every two seconds




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« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2011 at 10:17am by buzzanddidj »  

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #22 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 9:59am
 
Victoria officially recognizes Bob Brown windy farms sickness

Regulating wind farms out of Victoria

Wind farms, like much new technology, have generated both strong community support and vocal opposition. Victoria has recently amended its planning laws and regulations to restrict locations for wind farms. The amendments look set to entrench fossil fuel generation in the state, and make it harder for…


Authors
Lee Godden Director of the Centre for Resources, Energy and Environmental Law at University of Melbourne
Anne Kallies  PhD Scholar at University of Melbourne

Lee Gooden receives funding from the Australian Research Council Discovery Project DP0987850. She is affiliated with The Centre for Resources Energy and Environmental Law, Melbourne Law School.

Anne Kallies does not work for, consult to, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has no relevant affiliations.

The University of Melbourne is a Founding Partner of The Conversation.

Victorian planning amendments treat wind farms as a menace on the horizon.

Wind farms, like much new technology, have generated both strong community support and vocal opposition. Victoria has recently amended its planning laws and regulations to restrict locations for wind farms.

The amendments look set to entrench fossil fuel generation in the state, and make it harder for Victoria to move towards renewable energy.

Wind power: vital renewable, or health risk?

Wind power is a significant component of any effective response to climate change. Building more wind farms will help facilitate the structural change we’ll need to become a low-carbon economy.

Despite the global importance of wind farm development in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, in Victoria there has been ongoing debate about the adverse effects of wind farms.

Local communities have raised concerns about health and amenity impacts. A recent Federal Senate Inquiry recommended applying scientific measurements for sound and for shadow flicker to alleviate problems for wind farm neighbours. They said these may be preferable to prescribed distance setbacks as setbacks are arbitrary and may be too great or too small.

Moreover the Senate Committee found that there is no conclusive evidence that wind turbines have adverse effects on health.

Nonetheless, balancing the range of competing interests is complex, with many disputes around wind farms playing out in the legal system, including within major planning law frameworks.

How the laws manage competing interests

Planning decisions involve balancing different interests in, and uses of, land. The planning law system helps decision-makers undertake this balancing act by providing guidance, including long-term strategies.

Strategic planning lets development occur across the state in a coherent fashion. It enables development to conform with ideas of what we want our state to look like, how much electricity we want generated from renewable energy sources, where urban growth is to occur, where highways are to be built and so on.

In Victoria, the planning system is given effect under the Planning and Environment Act 1987. Under this Act, developers seeking to build wind farms must get a planning permit before proceeding with construction.
So what’s changed?

The first amendments by the Baillieu government in March 2011 returned the planning authority for all wind farm permits to the local government authorities. Formerly, wind farms with an installation size of more than 30MW were referred to the Minister for Planning for determination.

Wind farm proponents also had to identify all dwellings within 2km of the proposed installation.

The amendments introduced the more stringent 2010 New Zealand Standard for Wind Farm Noise. This set a noise limit of 40 decibel for dwellings in the vicinity of the proposed turbine.

Significantly, decision making on wind farm developments now must have regard to the “economic and environmental benefits to the broader community of renewable energy while also considering the need to minimise the effects of a proposal on the local community and environment”.

The second set of recent amendments extends considerably the areas to be excluded from wind farm development in Victoria. In effect, it creates wind farm “no go zones”.

“Wind energy facilities” are to be excluded from such areas due to the landscape and environmental values pertaining in those regions.

Creating no-go zones for wind

Previously, wind farms were excluded from national and state parks, coastal parks and Ramsar wetlands (comprising 43% of the Victorian coastline and 32 % of all the land). But now extensive new zones of exclusion are to operate.

Excluded zones now include the Yarra Valley and Dandenong Ranges, Mt Macdedon and Mc Harg Ranges. These include some of the best non-coastal wind resources in Victoria.

Also excluded are the Bellarine and Mornington Peninsulas, and all land within 5km of high water mark on the Great Ocean Road and the Bass Coast.

At a localised level, proposed wind farm developments now need to obtain the written consent of any owner of a dwelling within 2km of any turbine.

The amendments do not affect existing wind farms per se, although the new planning framework applies to any amendments necessary for already granted permits as of 15 March 2012.

Putting local above global concerns

At a strategic planning level, the amendments represent a significant change in direction. They give greater capacity to localised decision-making based on community concerns about wind farms, as opposed to addressing more globally-focused issues about facilitating renewable energy facilitation.

While the Baillieu government has stressed that such amendments provide “certainty”, the amendments effectively create a presumption against wind farm development over a large part of Victoria. There will be negative consequences for investments in wind farm facilities.

These changes add to existing barriers facing renewable energy promotion. There is a national target of 20% renewable energy generation by 2020, and a similar Victorian target. But there are barriers within renewable energy transmission infrastructure planning that militate against achieving these goals.

Electricity market rules for transmission planning pose particular problems for wind farms seeking connection to the grid. Moreover, the existing planning laws for energy networks and infrastructure development are oriented to a grid developed around major fossil fuel generation.

Treating wind as more dangerous than coal

In the past in Victoria, substantial rezoning has accommodated the expansion of fossil fuel power generation (see, for example, Australian Conservation Foundation v Latrobe CC (2004) 140 LGERA 100).

Moreover, in terms of minimum “setback” requirements it is notable that a dual gas/coal plant approved by the Victorian EPA earlier this year would be within 2km of residential areas.

The recent amendments, by creating many “no go zones” for wind farm development in Victoria will re-entrench existing patterns for energy transmission and generation and impact Victoria’s commitment to cutting GHG emissions.

http://theconversation.edu.au/regulating-wind-farms-out-of-victoria-3125
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #23 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 10:10am
 
You can have your Bob Brown windy farm just so long as it is not near me !


NSW ministers incompetent on wind farms  Updated: 13:56, Monday December 19, 2011

Federal Liberal MP Alby Schultz says incompetent NSW government ministers who ignored his concerns about noisy wind farms have led him to campaign against his own party.

NSW cabinet is meeting this week to consider guidelines that will determine the future of wind power in the state.

About 20 applications for new farms have been put on hold while the government decides how to balance competing interests.


Mr Schultz, member for Hume in southern NSW, says he's gone against his own party because 'somebody has got to stand up for their constituents'.

'My constituents came to me earlier in the piece because of the concerns that they had,' Mr Schultz told reporters in Sydney on Monday.

'The more that I looked at this industry the more I was convinced that there was a serious issue.

'For eight months now I've tried to convince the premier and his ministers, some of whom are totally incompetent, that they should be looking at this issue.'

A group opposed to plans for a wind farm in Flyers Creek, near Orange in the state's central west, says the farms will be breaching the NSW government's environmental legislation.

In a submission presented to NSW Planning on Monday, the group said the farms will cause excessive noise causing sleep loss, stress and other health problems.

The Shooters and Fishers Party agree.

Shooters Party MP Robert Borsak says the government should halt the entire process.

'We'd like the state government to at least have a detailed and proper inquiry into these planning laws,' he told reporters in Sydney.

'The Shooters and Fishers Party is against wind farms. We just don't think they're appropriate in our agricultural setting.'

Asked if the party would use its balance of power in the upper house to campaign against wind farms, Mr Borsak said: 'If we get a chance, we will.'


But opposition environment spokesman Luke Foley wants the O'Farrell government to roll out the welcome mat for the wind industry.

'There's $3 billion of investment opportunity for this state, if we're open for business,' he told reporters in Sydney.

'We know that large scale wind is the cheapest possible form of renewable energy.

'There's no credible health research that says there is any risk to people's health from wind turbines near them.'

http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=698277&vId=
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #24 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 10:32am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 20th, 2011 at 9:56am:
I've BEEN there





From the Daylesford/Ballan Road ( ... HALF the distance from the nearest complaintent) any "noise" is inaudible


At 500 metres - when pointed out to me - I could "make it out"




http://theballaratindependent.com.au/media/news_item/Hepburn_Wind_launch_980x600...


Standing DIRECTLY UNDER the turbine, I would describe it as
the sound of a truck or bus passing by ( ... minus the engine, or tyre to road sound)
once every two seconds











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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #25 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 10:44am
 
You are not bad at spamming someone else's propaganda, juli/mellie.
When was the last time you were anywhere near a wind turbine?

I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find one and starting from approx 1km away walk in with a little camera recording vision and sound as you go.

I'm sure that would be much more informative than just repeating the rubbish you do.

Wink

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #26 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:06am
 
Lobo wrote on Dec 20th, 2011 at 10:44am:
You are not bad at spamming someone else's propaganda, juli/mellie.
When was the last time you were anywhere near a wind turbine?

I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find one and starting from approx 1km away walk in with a little camera recording vision and sound as you go.

I'm sure that would be much more informative than just repeating the rubbish you do.

Wink







I HAVE access to the Hepburn Wind - Sailors Falls site
I have NO hesitation in extending an INSPECTION/INVITE to ANY climate change denier or anti-renewable advocate

 




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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #27 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:09am
 
You are really wasting your breath as the LAW now recognizes that Bob Brown Windy Farms do cause an irritating noise and as such must be kept away from existing residences. 

You have experience with apparently only one windy farm and as you are clearly biased you choose to hear nothing - it is a bit like the person playing a stereo too loud which annoys all the neighbors.

To express a viable opinion you would need to go and interview other affected people affected by other windy farms which may prove to be a lot noisier than yours. The audibility depends on the actual terrain, direction and the brand and size of the windy farm units. Also the individual's susceptibility comes into it - ie some people are susceptible to migraine headaches when exposed to certain conditions while others are unaffected.

Bear in mind that at night the whoosh whoosh whoosh noise of the windy farms can be far more annoying than during the day due to the ambient noise. At night in the country it is usually very quite except for the occasional bark of a fox or whoop whoop of a passing night bird and this is when people are trying to sleep. In summer when the nights are hot it is harder to fall asleep and this the time when the constant whoosh whoosh whoosh noise of the windy farms would become particularly annoying. The sensitivity of a person to windy farm noise will also depend on the acuity of the person's hearing - so someone who has spent years working with noisy machinery or someone who has had long term exposure to very loud music will be partially deaf and probably won't hear a thing.
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« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:44am by juliar »  
 
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #28 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:24am
 
Quote:
    You are really wasting your breath as the LAW now recognizes that Bob Brown Windy Farms do cause an irritating noise and as such must be kept away from existing residences.



http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/drongo







Go on, go "RAD"
Give it a left "click"



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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #29 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:25am
 
juliar wrote on Dec 20th, 2011 at 11:09am:
You are really wasting your breath as the LAW now recognizes that Bob Brown Windy Farms do cause an irritating noise and as such must be kept away from existing residences. 

You have experience with apparently only one windy farm and as you are clearly biased you choose to hear nothing - it is a bit like the person playing a stereo too loud which annoys all the neighbors.

To express a viable opinion you would need to go and interview other affected people affected by other windy farms which may prove to be a lot noisier than yours. The audibility depends on the actual terrain, direction and the brand and size of the windy farm units. Also the individual's susceptibility comes into it - ie some people are susceptible to migraine headaches when exposed to certain conditions while others are unaffected.


All sorts of governments make all sorts of stupid legislation. All you've told us is that the Victorian government has added yet another one. Hardly surprising from a stupid government.

Where are the facts about wind farm noise? You know? Measurements. Statistics. Not that mindless drivel that you peddle. Facts. You've had 24 hours and all you've managed to do is continue your parrot squawking.
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