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Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy (Read 17670 times)
philperth2010
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #90 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 1:37pm
 
Stuff renewable energy and expensive energy alternatives.....Australia has enough fossil fuels to keep us going for centuries to come and Australia can make large profits by supporting the fossil fuel industry......Global Warming even if it is true will take many decades to even have a minimal effect and if America, China and India do not care why should we.....Their countries will suffer much more than Australia with their large populations and lack of natural resources that Australia can take advantage of.....Australia cannot change the world but we can take advantage of our economic position and support a better life for the majority of Australian's!!!

Cool
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #91 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 1:40pm
 
juliar wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 1:02pm:
Froggo,
I appreciate you have not got much to work with in the upper region department (that is Tony Abbott's fault of course) but, given the amount of time you have been pondering the matter, it surely must have occurred to you that there is a quite sound technological reason while the raucous unbearable racket from the windy whirlers is muted while the TV interviewer is capturing the emotional distress of the unfortunate long suffering land holder.

Have you never heard of DIRECTIONAL microphones ????  The TV interviewer simply arranged the interview positions so that the directional microphone was turned away from the swinish swishing of the accursed whizzing windy machine so that every emotional sob could be captured with astounding clarity.

And to suggest I should go to the bothered landholders to experience first hand the horrible racket from these swirling twirling windy whirlers is rather absurd as I believe these decent tax paying people are genuinely suffering, as does the state govt of 3 states who have recognized the legitimacy of the people's complaints by protecting them by Law.

It is you and your cohorts who are calling these poor unfortunate long suffering decent Australians LIARS !!!!


I bet wind power is a lot quieter than the alternatives  Grin
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #92 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 3:23pm
 
This power plant sounds PRETTY DAMNED NOISY to me. No, I don't mean the wind noise either.

AND it's on fire ALL THE TIME, not occasionally when a turbine fails because the wind is blowing at superman strength!



Notice how the noise gets louder as the UNIDIRECTIONAL microphone points towards the power plant??

Hey Liar! Can you get your Windfarm Whiners to complain about the noise from these coal fired power plants?? I'd like to get some sleep after our move.  Angry Angry
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #93 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 3:49pm
 
"Have you never heard of DIRECTIONAL microphones ????  The TV interviewer simply arranged the interview positions so that the directional microphone was turned away....."(melliar)
.........

Now watch from 2.06min to 2.10 as the reporter and whiner walk past the directional mic.
You can faintly hear the woman and not the turbine.
When they pass out of view and the mic is still trained in the direction of the turbine......NO noise!!!

See ya!!

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #94 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 5:47pm
 
juliar wrote on Jan 19th, 2012 at 6:47pm:
Bear in mind that there is a lot of costly maintenance with a windy farm - not to mention the possibility of a catastrophic extremely expensive disintegrational collapse in a hi wind.

In a location where there are industries a windy farm is about as useless as the ALP as these puny unreliable mouse power whirling wind mills can only supply a domestic load - while the wind is actually blowing - otherwise bring out the oil lamps and candles and light up the open wood fired fireplace if it is winter.



What is this costly maintenance please cite to back up your nonsense and while you are at it please supply the maintenance schedule for coal and nuclear power so we can compare costs.

We should also compare the wages bill for staff at these power plants i dont see anyone working on windpower in paddocks i cant imagine a coal or nuclear plant could be left unattended like they do with wind and solar.

The catastrophic failure of a wind turbine is fairly minor compared to the consequences of a catastrophic failure with nuclear power or a coal burning power station burning to the ground.

The noise argument is bullshit do you expect people to believe on a warm night when you even said the air was "still and not moving" that a wind turbine would be working?
There is what they call a "minimum startup windspeed" which is considerably higher than zero wind.
The people who make these turbines publish the decibel readings at various windspeeds you will find this data in the specifications.



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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #95 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:22pm
 
Froggie, will you never admit you are simply beaten.

Were you there to see WHICH MICROPHONE or how many MICROPHONES were actually being used ? The actual microphone being used won't necessarily be visible in the video. If 2 mikes were used the mike looking at the windy farm may have been turned off during this particular part of the interview just for a more dramatic effect.

These are professional interviewers who have sophisticated equipment that is designed to block out ambient noise as many interviews are conducted in a noisy environment. It is even possible that the lady was wearing a microphone, that was not visible in the video, which is designed to only hear the wearer's voice and this was done precisely to block out the ambient noise of the windy farm.

Also, have you considered the possibility that the audio recording may have been edited back at the studio in order to enhance the effect of the lady's emotional sobbing and despair.

There is also the other, for you most exasperating, possibility that THE WIND TEMPORARILY STOPPED BLOWING and, of course, the horrible noise temporarily STOPPED.

Frog, look why don't you go down there and interview the lady yourself then you can be absolutely sure of the real fair dinkum honest to god truth. Don't forget to get your hearing checked first in case you are partially deaf from exposure to loud industrial noise or loud music or a motor bike.

The fact that the state governments have recognized that the people complaining about the noise from the windy farms do have a genuine grievance would suggest you are chasing moonbeams.

Why don't you register a complaint with each of the 3 state governments which have already or are about to enshrine in law that windy farms cannot be built within 2km of existing residents. Tell them that you are highly suspicious of evidence considered.

On YouTube there are quite a lot of videos demonstrating the noise from windy turbines and it is hard to believe every single one is lying like Miss Gillard.

In any case you won't have to worry anymore because all new windy farms in Vic, NSW, and WA (or SA?) will keep 2km away from existing residences so the problem won't exist anymore. Any existing problems might be resolved in the courts with quite substantial damages being claimed. I hope the farmers win their compensation.

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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #96 - Jan 20th, 2012 at 8:20pm
 
The whole "NOISE" aspect is UTTER NONSENSE !

Unlike the "Landscape Guardians", "juliar" - and the REST of the TROGLODYTES - I have PHYSICALLY "been there"


These installations are (naturally) located in rural, VERY WINDY, locations

You cannot detect ANY noise from the turbines past 500 metres - due to the sound of the wind roaring through the trees

Yet people are believing ( ... in the case of http://hepburnwind.com.au/ ) they can hear them from one and half KILOMETRES away - over the sound of overnight freight lorries rumbling down the highway a kilometre away

The NEAREST neighbours ( ... a retired couple) have given the project their BLESSING - fron a KM away

The loudest WHINGER is one
Jan Perry - of " ...the Guardians"
- from near 2KM away







buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 21st, 2011 at 8:33am:
buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 5th, 2011 at 12:40am:
Quote:
Now wind farm opponents have been handed victory on a plate. The Government’s new policy has three main elements:

the government will amend planning laws to give households power to veto wind turbines within two kilometres of their homes.

Turbines will also be banned in the Macedon and McHarg ranges, in the Yarra Valley, on the Mornington and Bellarine peninsulas, and within five kilometres of the Great Ocean Road and the Bass Coast.

And in changes that go further than the Coalition flagged in the policy it took to last year’s state election, turbines will also be prohibited within five kilometres of 21 Victorian regional centres.

Wind farms approved by Labor and not yet built will not be affected.

The Government claims that 92% of the state is still available for wind farm development, but the people who build them have a different view.

Pacific Hydro say that they will be pursuing opportunities elsewhere after completing current projects.


The Clean Energy Council estimated prior to the election that $3.6 billion worth of investments would not go ahead under the Coalition’s policy.


Make that up to $10 billion according to Giles Parkinson at Climate Spectator. Earlier Parkinson had written about the negativity coming from right-wing governments on climate change policy.[
b]

Barry O’Farrell is on record saying he doesn’t want any more wind farms built[/b]. The wind doesn’t blow so consistently in Queensland, so theoretically there should be opportunities in South Australia






New rules blamed for wind farm loss

September 01, 2011

A developer has scrapped plans for a wind farm project in south-west Victoria because of the State Government's new planning rules.

The company's managing director, David Shapiro, says it is now abandoning the development.

"The Victorian Government has changed the rules and as those rules stand now it simply wouldn't get through the planning framework," he said.

"Our reading of the situation is that really was the intention of Government to make development more difficult."
 



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-01/new-rules-blamed-for-wind-farm-loss/286583...

Mr Shapiro says the company is unlikely to launch new developments in Victoria.






The Planning Minister has said the new rules would not threaten investment in wind energy.






Mr "Planning" Minister ...
Investment is ALREADY leaving - in the BILLIONS

... to be welcomed with open arms, in South Australia - a state that BACKS investment in renewable, clean energy





I dropped by the Hepburn Wind site today, on the way to Melbourne, for Father's Day
I got out of the car, about 200 metres from the nearest turbine

I expected a gentle "hum" from this distance ...
But between the occassional bird noise - and a passing car -
GOLDEN SILENCE

The LOUDEST opponenent FROM where I was, lives over a kilometre FURTHER in the same direction - on the other side of the Daylesford-Ballan Road

She must be Superwoman, with that sort of hearing
 







This photo was  a FAKE ...



http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/12/02/1225964/789277-jan-perry-101202....

"It’s right at our front door" . . . Jan Perry, president of Landscape Guardians anti-wind farm group, at Leonards Hill, northeast of Melbourne, yesterday. Picture: Stuart McEvoy Source: The Australian


... set up by JAN PERRY ( ... of Landscape Guardians) 
and on the payroll of Peter Mitchell
, a founding chairman of the Moonie Oil Company and now chairman of Lowell Pty Ltd, which runs an investment fund focused on oil, coal seamgas and minerals.

and "The Australian" newspaper


Hepburn Wind has TWO turbines
NEITHER of which had been erected at the photo's time of publication

AND - underground exit cables










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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #97 - Jan 21st, 2012 at 1:44pm
 
juliar wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:22pm:
Froggie, will you never admit you are simply beaten.

*Were you there to see WHICH MICROPHONE or how many MICROPHONES were actually being used ? The actual microphone being used won't necessarily be visible in the video. If 2 mikes were used the mike looking at the windy farm may have been turned off during this particular part of the interview just for a more dramatic effect.

**These are professional interviewers who have sophisticated equipment that is designed to block out ambient noise as many interviews are conducted in a noisy environment. It is even possible that the lady was wearing a microphone, that was not visible in the video, which is designed to only hear the wearer's voice and this was done precisely to block out the ambient noise of the windy farm.

***Also, have you considered the possibility that the audio recording may have been edited back at the studio in order to enhance the effect of the lady's emotional sobbing and despair.
There is also the other, for you most exasperating, ****possibility that THE WIND TEMPORARILY STOPPED BLOWING and, of course, the horrible noise temporarily STOPPED.

Frog, look why don't you go down there and interview the lady yourself then you can be absolutely sure of the real fair dinkum honest to god truth. Don't forget to get your hearing checked first in case you are partially deaf from exposure to loud industrial noise or loud music or a motor bike.

The fact that the state governments have recognized that the people complaining about the noise from the windy farms do have a genuine grievance would suggest you are chasing moonbeams.

Why don't you register a complaint with each of the 3 state governments which have already or are about to enshrine in law that windy farms cannot be built within 2km of existing residents. Tell them that you are highly suspicious of evidence considered.

On YouTube there are quite a lot of videos demonstrating the noise from windy turbines and it is hard to believe every single one is lying like Miss Gillard.

In any case you won't have to worry anymore because all new windy farms in Vic, NSW, and WA (or SA?) will keep 2km away from existing residences so the problem won't exist anymore. Any existing problems might be resolved in the courts with quite substantial damages being claimed. I hope the farmers win their compensation.



Oh,melliar....
You do say the funniest (weirdest)things...

* Were YOU there to say I'm wrong?
That'd be a big NO, right??

**No sh!t, Sherlock??

***Definitely!! And if they enhanced her 'emotional sobbing', could they not also enhance the sound level of the generator?
(I've already explained how this is possible.)

Give it up!!

Wink
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #98 - Jan 21st, 2012 at 2:12pm
 
One for the road!!

Have you noticed, melliar, just how many have flocked in to support you?
Even your friends(?) are giving you a very wide berth.

I believe the closest was FRED, but he was really questioning me on a possible health issue.

Perhaps if you tried a less, far less, strident approach you might get more favourable attention.

You sound like that dreadfully disgusting, strident, peroxide blond that used to appear on one of the early morning weekend CA programs.

Think you might just need a make-over.

Good luck with that!!

Smiley

Have fun, y'all!!!

Wink
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #99 - Jan 22nd, 2012 at 10:42pm
 
Frog,

You have lost the debate and you are frustrated by this fact so you are now using the typical Labor technique of avoiding the topic and unsuccessfully attacking the person - a classic admission of defeat.

The things you are saying are so trivial as as to be embarrassing. You just are not much good at debating. Emotional outbursts always say the same thing - you don't have any valid argument. The silly self contradictory nonsense you write about the studio enhancement totally justifies the conclusion that you are simply out of your depth. The purpose of the studio enhancement, if that is what they did, would be to emphasize the voice and to attenuate the ambient noise for dramatic effect. Just to confuse your poor little mind a bit more the interview may have been conducted on more than one day and the wind had dropped when they did the interview which seems to be causing you so much distress and delusion.

Get out of your armchair and stop waving your arms about and challenge the state government and ask to see their justification. Go and speak to your local member.

It is YOU who are calling the Australian landholders LIARS - so justify yourself because you have failed dismally so far. I dare you to go and confront these landholders and call them LIARS to their faces.

By the way did you vote for the GREENS - you certainly fit the profile of a typical uninformed idealistic GREENS voter.
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #100 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 6:47am
 
ATTENTION



http://news.sp@m/tech/wind-power-without-the-blades.html

...



Noise from wind turbine blades, inadvertent bat and bird kills and even the way wind turbines look have made installing them anything but a breeze. New York design firm Atelier DNA has an alternative concept that ditches blades in favor of stalks. Resembling thin cattails, the Windstalks generate electricity when the wind sets them waving.
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #101 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 6:49am
 

Wind Power Without the Blades


...
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #102 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 6:49am
 

After completion, a Windstalk should be able to produce as much electricity as a single wind turbine,

...


http://news.sp@m/tech/wind-power-without-the-blades.html
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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #103 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 12:03pm
 
juliar wrote on Jan 22nd, 2012 at 10:42pm:
Frog,

You have lost the debate













SWEETHEART ...

YOU lost the "debate" way back HERE



http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1324270974/0#0


( ... try and throw a few FACTS into the mix - you might get a bit of a START up)



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Re: Bob Brown Windy Farms too Noisy
Reply #104 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 10:09pm
 
Shocking destruction of wilderness by Bob Brown windy farm monstrosity !!!

Wind Power Australia – The Musselroe Wind Farm Travesty In Tasmania
  Posted on 01/18/2012 by TonyfromOz
Why is it that some of the most pristinely beautiful sites are the ones chosen for those new eyesores, Wind Towers. Such is the case for a proposed new Wind Power Plant, euphemistically called ‘Wind Farms’. How I hate that term ‘Wind Farm’, and they use that term to make them sound like they are doing something constructive, associating it with the land somehow. This new Wind Plant, The Musselroe Wind Farm, in Australia, is to be located in Tasmania, that large Island to the South of the Continent.

This new situation has a remarkable symmetry to what happened in Tasmania back in the 1980′s when a new dam was proposed for the Franklin River wilderness on that same Island, and part and parcel with that proposed dam was a Hydro electric plant. Back then however, environmentalists came from everywhere, Tasmania, Mainland Australia, and indeed from the wider World, all to protest against a Dam in a pristine wilderness area. Now however, it seems that something like this Wind Plant is somehow okay.

Back in the 1980′s one of the most vocal protesters, and in fact the leader of the protest was Bob Brown. That same Bob Brown is now an Australian Senator for the Australian Greens Party, representing the State of Tasmania, where this Wind Plant is to be constructed. Part of his agenda, and in fact, his Policy, is the introduction of Renewable Power Plants, so will he be protesting anything like this? In exactly the same manner as the dam on the Franklin that he protested against was a going to be a blot on the pristine Tasmanian landscape, this Wind Plant will also be a highly visible blot on the landscape, in his own home State.  Will he be protesting? Will his Greens Party deputy, Senator Milne, also from Tasmania be protesting as well?  No. In fact, this time, anybody who is protesting will be labelled by these same environmental advocates as ‘shills’ for ‘Big Oil’. They will be labelled as ‘Deniers’. They will be vilified if they make any protest whatsoever. How times change!

So then, let’s look at this new Musselroe Wind Plant, not from an environmental aspect, but from the absolute core of what this Plant is supposed to do, provide electrical power. First, let’s look at some of the technical details of the towers themselves. Vestas V90-3MW Nacelle - On top of each tower will be the Vestas V90-3 Nacelle. The -3 indicates that this nacelle will be housing a 3 MW generator. This nacelle weighs 70 tonnes, so the structure itself needs to be quite sturdy. Each tower will weigh in the vicinity of 285 Tonnes. The tower will be 105 metres tall, measured to the hub. That’s just a tick over 340 feet. Attached to that hub are the three blades, having a swept diameter of 90 metres, which is around 300 feet. So, from the base of the tower to the top of the rotating blades, that height is now just under 390 feet. There will be 56 of these huge towers in that pristine countryside. So, with 3MW generators, that total power comes in at 168MW.

This sounds like it is in fact quite a large amount of power, but as I have always said, that ‘up front’ Nameplate Capacity is not what should be highlighted. What should be focussed on wholly should be that actual power delivered to consumers in the State of Tasmania, because as with all power plants of any sort, they only supply a relatively local area. That expected power to be delivered for consumption is a theoretical total of 420GigaWattHours (GWH). Again, this sounds like it is a lot of power, and when you, as consumers look at your current electricity bill, you will see that your household consumption is stated there in KWH. (KiloWattHours) That delivered power of 420GWH is in fact 420,000,000KWH, and when stated like that, in comparison to your residential account, it actually does look to be a large amount. What that total power delivered number does tell us is just how efficient a Plant of this nature really is. If those rotating blades on every tower were to rotate 24 hours a day for a whole year, they would generate for consumption 1,472GWH of power. So, knowing the (theoretical) power delivery of 420GWH, we can calculate the Capacity Factor (CF) for this Plant.
That CF comes in at 28.5%.

Now, remember how I said the Plant can generate that huge total if it were to operate for the full 24 hours. Effectively, that 28.5% CF means that this Plant, all of those huge 56 towers will only be supplying their power for just under 7 hours a day. (28.5% of 24 hours) That’s 7 hours of power in every 24, averaged over the full year. The website for the Plant itself says that this Plant will be supplying the power needs for 50,000 homes, and when it is stated like that, it makes it sound like they are supplying an awful lot of power. This plant will not be connected directly to those 50,000 homes, and if it is only supplying power for just under 7 hours a day, then surely it would never supply all the needs for those 50,000 homes anyway. This Wind Plant will be connected to the Tasmanian Power Grid only. That grid supplies power to three sectors, the residential sector which consumes 38% of all power from the grid, The Commerce Sector (37%) and the Industrial Sector. (24%) So, that again shoots down the claim that this Plant WILL meet the electricity needs of those 50,000 homes. So, why do they use this figure when it’s so easy to discount.  It’s a clever ploy on behalf of the Company proposing this Plant. They cannot (and never do) state in the proposal that their Plant only has a CF of 28% and will only be supplying power for around those 7 hours a day. If they did that, people would ask some pretty stern questions of them.

So, what they do is, knowing the theoretical total power that the Plant ‘might’ generate, and knowing the total residential consumption for that area, they extrapolate the theoretical total into what an average residence might consume, and from that, they can then say that the Plant can supply the needs for that (X) number of homes, in this case 50,000. This way, it makes the Plant look pretty impressive, instead of pretty average, and they can actually say that they told the truth ‘up front’. The problem with that is that the average person does not know the technical details to work it out. The Plant then states at their website that they will in fact be saving 450,000 tons of Carbon Dioxide emissions each year, again making it sound like this Plant is actually doing something substantial. Again, this is ‘artful’ interpretation.

If they were to construct a coal fired plant of around the same size, then that coal fired plant would emit around that total of 450,000 tons of CO2, so that’s how they come by that number. If they construct this Wind Plant, then they are saving that 450,000 tons of CO2 by NOT constructing an equivalent coal fired plant. It could also be said that because this Wind Plant is supplying that electricity to the grid, then there would be a saving of CO2 emissions from Plants that do supply the grid, in this case Natural gas fired power plants, but again, that is a spurious figure, because, as I have said, this Wind Plant is only supplying power for, on average, 7 hours a day, and those hours are not firm, but can be any time, so, in fact, those same other power plants will still need to be operational to supply power, because they don’t know when this Wind Plant will be running, or just sitting there with the blades not turning due to lack of wind, or even too much wind.

This electrical power data alone is enough to make people think seriously about the efficacy of constructing 56 huge towers in such a pristine area. The average life of a Plant of this nature is (at best) 25 years, while the average life of current coal fired plants is around 50 years, and even that can be extended out. At the end of that 25 years, these now expired Wind Towers will just be huge and totally useless concrete structures.

This Plant will cost around $400 Million. The Company proposing the Plant will need to find finance for that and a large part of that has already been secured, from, of all places, China, the China Light and Power Company, trading in Australia as TRUenergy. Will the Vestas V90-3 Nacelles with the generator complex inside be constructed here in Australia, providing technical jobs for Australians? No.  Those nacelles will be imported from the manufacturer, based in Denmark.

The area where this construction is now under way is a known bird life habitat, but the Company says at their website that they will take that into account, and they say at their site: During operation of the wind farm a monitoring program will be undertaken that continues to look at bird use of the area. They will be looking at bird use of the area. Well, that’s a relief. Thank heavens for that. Look, there’s a bird. The area is also culturally significant to the local indigenous aboriginal people and this has also been taken into account when the Company says at their site: The project team continues to consult with the Aboriginal community as construction proceeds, and all construction team members attend a Cultural Awareness training session presented by members of the Aboriginal community as part of their induction to the wind farm site. Well, that too is a relief.

The Plant is situated on the North Eastern tip of Tasmania, and the Plant’s website says that this will take advantage of the ‘Roaring Forties’ that famed Latitude 40 Degrees South where the winds blow so strongly, and in fact the winds utilised to bring that very first fleet of settlers to Australia in 1788.
Read rest of distressing destruction in ref
http://papundits.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/wind-power-australia-the-musselroe-win...
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