Another way of saying something quite similar is that  barbarian is incapable of irony when he is looking in the mirror. He can't see himself self-critically.

It's from the Greek (via Sanskrit), actually,  and it referred to the blabbering, stammering, hairy beasts of the middle east, the Persians.

(yassou, Amadd.)

You're right, but it came to us through the Romans. At least the Greeks had an admiration for the Celts and Scythians. The Romans basically regarded everybody who was not Greco-Roman as barbarian, and that included Celts and Germanic people alike.

You've nailed it, Yadda. Barbarism is not secular. It lies within us all. However, very few of us, I think, are able to erradicate it with reason alone.

What we need is action guided by reason. All great teachers (and gods) have stated this. The more we practice, the more reason we obtain. Knowledge is not merely the result of studied analysis; it comes with compassion. As we wake up, it gradually dawns on us that we are no different to any other being. We have the same capacity for barbarism, and the same inherent greatness.

Of course, I may well be wrong.

Namaste.

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2012 at 4:58pm:




I gotta heartily disagree with you K.

Barbarism is precisely secular.

IMO, barbarism is not sacred, it is not holy.

But it is secular, very much so.




e.g.
What is more 'secular' and temporal, and more barbaric, than the 'philosophy' which this quote expresses ???.....



Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian


And what that quote expresses, imo, is the philosophy of Cain.

Who was not a sacred man, imo.

Cain was a man who sought temporal and secular advantage, by murder.





Dictionary;
secular = = not religious, sacred, or spiritual.

Dictionary;
temporal = =
1 of or relating to time.
2 relating to worldly affairs; secular.








Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2012 at 4:58pm:


I agree with you, that reason, having that capacity within us, is 'expansive' for our understanding.
....that is, our understanding of ourselves and the world?





      i




Personally, i would rather speak about meditation [.....rather than reason].


IMO, meditation is empowering [.....and for both good and/or evil !! ].

Engaging in meditation enables us to really focus, our........'understanding'?
[.....maybe i'm being a little optimistic here, in trying to convey my meaning ???? ]

But then, what do we choose to focus our minds upon ???

"Beware of the darkside Luke!"

      

I mean, if 'left to our own devices' what will most of us choose to focus ['meditate'] our minds upon ???
[.......imo, that is our primary reason for being ['here'].  in this life we reveal ourselves, we reveal how we will choose, if given freedom!]


And i ask again...... what will we choose to focus our minds upon ???

Seeking out the 'best' 'short-cuts' in life, to our achieve our desires ?
[.....i can mentally hear some of you asking;

"And why is that necessarily a bad thing?"

        ]





+++


These words of Jesus were, imo, urging us to a sensible, a sacred, meditation in this life.....

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.

For a deeper understanding of what that particular meditation is about, see also Deuteronomy ch 5 + ch 6



IMO, what we [predominately] meditate upon in this world [in this life] is [clearly] where our 'cares' in this world will be.

We choose that place [where our 'cares' are], because we [ourselves] always choose what we will meditate upon in this life.

Most of us, imo, will be 'overcome' by this world [.....i mean we become fixated and 'obsessed' on the cares of this life].

Meditation has the power to open >> a << spiritual world to each of us.

But, which spiritual path will we each choose?




I firmly believe that what we [choose to] meditate upon, is bound to have an important influence upon us.

And often, for either good or bad.

e.g.
Christians read and study the Bible.
Moslems read and study the Koran.

To what effect ???



Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.





IMO, meditation is badly underrated [and its real power is not understood] by most of mankind.
.....because most of us are 'lost' in the world.



+++

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2012 at 4:58pm:


(OK, I appreciate the mode of that post, but nevertheless...)

I find that the more extreme attitudes more often come out of uneducated people. Anyone who follows a professional discipline is much more inclined to think in more detail about what he says or does, rather than follow the herd.

So I agree with your point about action guided by reason.

We could extend that to societies. A society that is not guided by rational decisions is more inclined to be barbaric.

So projecting that concept, which is more barbaric? -  a country ruled by an elite of hand picked professionals (Italy at the moment) or a democracy with a low educational standard where bad decisions (economic and otherwise) are made to placate the voting population?

Food for thought.  (Note that I didn't profer an answer.)

muso wrote on Jan 14^th, 2012 at 8:50am:



#1 above,

Yeah, that is correct.

And the name Josef Mengele comes to mind.



But yes muso, we should surrender the governance of the world to university educated intellectuals.
.....and soon we would be approaching a utopian society.
[reminds me of the plot of that old 1936 movie; Things to Come imdb]


And falah and myself, should get a room.
....coz falah and myself have so much in common.

Right muso ?      


LOL