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PRIDE (Read 8143 times)
muso
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #15 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 2:14pm
 
... wrote on Jan 13th, 2012 at 10:21am:
Artifical sweeteners?  I wouldn't touch 'em.

Quote:
sugar-free foods play a role in the nation's current obesity epidemic.Twenty years ago, Dr. Russell Blaylock predicted that excess phenylalanine in the brain from using aspartame blocks the normal production of serotonin to the point of weight gain due to an increase craving for carbohydrates and sugar. The result: epidemic weight gain.


They 'trick' the body into needing sweetness.  You might 'save' a few calories by having a tablet in your coffee instead of a teaspoon of sugar, but you'll make that up 10 fold in everything else.  Diet foods are a trap.
It is perhaps a little unfair on fatties who are trying to get in hsape - so many conflicting messages.  Most of the stuff I learnt at uni 10 years ago, as well as what I've found through trial and error, now goes exactly opposite to the 'accepted wisdom' of today.  But, it's a problem of their own making.


That may be the case, but now that I've researched it, the reason for the warning is because of those individuals who suffer from PKU and can't metabolise it. It's probably more reasonable to do that, but the risk is still higher with sugar.

Not everyone who takes artificial sweeteners ends up being overweight.  I don't mind a Pepsi Max now and again, but probably more because Pepsi and Coke are stashed full of sugar, and I find it quite a pleasant alternative.  I think there are probably a few vulnerable individuals who might crave sweet foods as a result of drinking it, but my feeling is that they are probably in the minority. Actually I've seen some people have an icecream and then they immediately have another, because they are hooked on the sugar, so I think that sugar dependancy can also be produced by eating sugar, and probably to the same or greater extent.

You're right in saying that the medical consensus on food today is totally different on what it used to be.

The argument that sugar is "natural" wears quite thin. Sucrose is a highly refined chemical extract from plants. Phenylalanine is also a naturally occurring chemical that's found in breast milk.
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2012 at 2:21pm by muso »  

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Karnal
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #16 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 6:34pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 12th, 2012 at 9:01pm:
The point about shame and stigma, as Scruton makes it, is that it is now near-verboten to stigmatise things that valorise social fregmentation. What is hissed down with vehemence are things that are pushing towards social cohesion.






I wish I was smart enough to understand your post, old chap, but I'll stick to Rog if I may.

The laws that have arisen to replace stigmas are largely civil laws, intended to protect what Enlightenment thinkers saw as human rights. Only a few years ago in Australian cities, vagrants were routinely collected and locked up each night by the police. You could be institutionalised for life on the whim of a psychiatrist. Subnormals, morons and even the deaf were hid away from public view, and many of them "sanitised" to prevent offspring. Lunatics were not allowed to travel on the King's roads, requiring canal systems to transport them to assylums. Unmarried mothers were sent away to give birth and often had their babies taken away for their own good. Blacks who looked a bit white were forceably removed from their families. Epileptics and homosexuals were locked away in asylums. Even disabled veterans whose wounds were too distasteful for public view were kept out of society, often voluntarily based on their disfigurement, their stigma internalised.

Many of these practices were not technically legal, of course. The police didn't charge the homeless when they put them in jail for the night. Why bother with the paperwork? They knew most of their prisoners by name - many of them veterans - and believed they were doing them a favour.

In all these cases, laws were created - or existing laws were applied - to protect people. And what purpose did such stigmas serve? When the economy and technologies changed, the stigmas went with them. Women's participation in the workforce and the inventon of the pill put an end to the unmarried slut mother stigma. The post-war boom and the resulting civil rights movement empowered blacks. New medications changed the way madness was treated. The rise of social gaze on sex saw gays fight their stigmas (and through performances like drag, parodied the stigmas to do it).

In all these cases, stigmas were a form of social control which could not have functioned without a willing population. Likewise, when institutional and popular will changed, the stigmas were undermined, but this did not come without a great deal of resistance against institutional powers and ideas; the old boys.   

Which is why it makes perfect sense that an old boy like Roger Scruton would argue to bring back internalised forms of social control. In itself, of course, this is no bad thing.

But the past was no rosy utopia of benevolent fraternity. In many cases it was corrupt, callous and so indifferent to cruelty that it had to be kept behind closed doors.

The beauty of stigmas for ideologues is that, like ideology, they are accepted as part of the natural order. This is how honour killings happen: someone spreads a rumour - true or false - and the shame must be addressed. Basically, it's how how caste systems are maintained.

So sure, bring it back, but know exactly what it is you're defending.
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2012 at 6:50pm by Karnal »  
 
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Soren
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #17 - Jan 15th, 2012 at 9:25pm
 
A load of gibberish and waffle. Being a silly PB with a Cert II in Social Work, you wash together, unsurprisingly, things people have and do not have control over.

Embarking on single motherhood at 18, or any age for that mater,  is still a bad idea, to be discouraged and regarded as self-indulgent and irresponsible. Homosexuality, like any sexual preference, is not to be flaunted. It is still pretty ridiculous that grown men have an urge to stick thinks, including other blokes, up heir arses. And wanting to get 'married'. How goddam crazy is that? What happened to 'disgreet'? That's the word homos should have approriated, instead of 'gay'.

Sleeping rough, begging, sitting around on the public thoroughfare dirty and disoriented are not valid 'lifestyole choices'.  If you are sick, you should be takn to a pl;ace where they can look after you. If you are a bum, shape up. Being a drug addict, a violent thug, a gambler, a lazy fat slob - in short, being unable to exreciseself-control - are bad things to be stigmatised.

Being an epiletic is not the same as being unable to take resonsibility for your own actions and conduct. Afflictions have no moral dimension. Decisions do.

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Karnal
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #18 - Jan 16th, 2012 at 12:30pm
 
Either you're playing the usual old boy debating game and are merely arguing the case for the negative (Cert II in Negative Studies), or you really are an unreformed, old school Nazi. You know, the Ernst Rohm type: an obsession with moral hygeine and dirty linen while you enjoy a bit of scatting and S&M on the sly.

Still, I'm going for the former. We teach hyperbole and shock tactics in Advanced Pakistani Rhetoric, so I should know. You are, of course, entitled to your convictions, old boy. But I ask you this: are they really YOUR beliefs?
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« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2012 at 1:24pm by Karnal »  
 
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #19 - Jan 16th, 2012 at 3:21pm
 
It would have been good to see some of the leftists or protectors of all things weak and feeble here to justify their "pride."
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...
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #20 - Jan 16th, 2012 at 6:01pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 3:21pm:
It would have been good to see some of the leftists or protectors of all things weak and feeble here to justify their "pride."



According to them there are no 'weak' or 'feeble' people, only people O-pressed by da (white) man.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Karnal
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #21 - Jan 16th, 2012 at 7:48pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 3:21pm:
It would have been good to see some of the leftists or protectors of all things weak and feeble here to justify their "pride."


You mean Christians? But, my dear good fellow, Yadda and I are always here.
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barnaby joe
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #22 - Jan 16th, 2012 at 7:56pm
 
LEFTIES RIGHTIES LEFTIES RIGHTIES
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Karnal
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #23 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 12:33am
 
... wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 6:01pm:
[quote author=497470781D0 link=1326183475/19#19 date=1326691286]It would have been good to see some of the leftists or protectors of all things weak and feeble here to justify their "pride."


Oh, there's weak and feeble people alright. The sick, old people, babies.

We're all used to getting our arses wiped. We'd better be prepared for it too. Those Pakistani nurses aids can be a bit rough.

Old boys quite enjoy it, I'm told. So we should too.

Being weak and frail is part of the rich tapestry of life. He who was first shall be last, after all.
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Soren
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #24 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:31pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 12:30pm:
Either you're playing the usual old boy debating game and are merely arguing the case for the negative (Cert II in Negative Studies), or you really are an unreformed, old school Nazi. You know, the Ernst Rohm type: an obsession with moral hygeine and dirty linen while you enjoy a bit of scatting and S&M on the sly.

Still, I'm going for the former. We teach hyperbole and shock tactics in Advanced Pakistani Rhetoric, so I should know. You are, of course, entitled to your convictions, old boy. But I ask you this: are they really YOUR beliefs?



Typical pissweak PB nonsense. With this kind of crap, PB, you are stuck in the stupid corner where you have painted yourself with the endless, reflex 'yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but' of 'new' school humanities thinking (aka Cert II in Social Work).

Actions have moral dimensions, affliction don't. Calling that nazi is wanting to be stupid - an action, not a mere affliction.





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barnaby joe
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #25 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:38pm
 
what do you do in a Cert II in social work anyway
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Karnal
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #26 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:43pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:31pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 12:30pm:
Either you're playing the usual old boy debating game and are merely arguing the case for the negative (Cert II in Negative Studies), or you really are an unreformed, old school Nazi. You know, the Ernst Rohm type: an obsession with moral hygeine and dirty linen while you enjoy a bit of scatting and S&M on the sly.

Still, I'm going for the former. We teach hyperbole and shock tactics in Advanced Pakistani Rhetoric, so I should know. You are, of course, entitled to your convictions, old boy. But I ask you this: are they really YOUR beliefs?



Typical pissweak PB nonsense. With this kind of crap, PB, you are stuck in the stupid corner where you have painted yourself with the endless, reflex 'yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but' of 'new' school humanities thinking (aka Cert II in Social Work).

Actions have moral dimensions, affliction don't. Calling that nazi is wanting to be stupid - an action, not a mere affliction.



Yes, I noticed you avoided epilepsy, leprosy and madness, the more traditonal stigmas.

I see you are seeking to modernise shame.

You're right though. I am a very "yeah but, no but" kind of guy. Things are not so black and white to me. Lo! How I wish they were!
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Soren
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #27 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:47pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
what do you do in a Cert II in social work anyway

You acquire practical competencies in wiping, and get an intro, via powerpoint, to their socio-philosophical underpinnings. 

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barnaby joe
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #28 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:49pm
 
3+ year course
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Soren
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Re: PRIDE
Reply #29 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:55pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:43pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 17th, 2012 at 2:31pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 16th, 2012 at 12:30pm:
Either you're playing the usual old boy debating game and are merely arguing the case for the negative (Cert II in Negative Studies), or you really are an unreformed, old school Nazi. You know, the Ernst Rohm type: an obsession with moral hygeine and dirty linen while you enjoy a bit of scatting and S&M on the sly.

Still, I'm going for the former. We teach hyperbole and shock tactics in Advanced Pakistani Rhetoric, so I should know. You are, of course, entitled to your convictions, old boy. But I ask you this: are they really YOUR beliefs?



Typical pissweak PB nonsense. With this kind of crap, PB, you are stuck in the stupid corner where you have painted yourself with the endless, reflex 'yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but' of 'new' school humanities thinking (aka Cert II in Social Work).

Actions have moral dimensions, affliction don't. Calling that nazi is wanting to be stupid - an action, not a mere affliction.



Yes, I noticed you avoided epilepsy, leprosy and madness, the more traditonal stigmas.

I see you are seeking to modernise shame.

You're right though. I am a very "yeah but, no but" kind of guy. Things are not so black and white to me. Lo! How I wish they were!



I see. Every deviance and criminality and stupidity and irresponsibility and anti-social behaviour is waiting for the correct deconstructive normalisation.

Hey, leprosy used to be stigmatised, madness, epilepsy! look at them now! So nothing should be stigmatised. it's all good, we just don't get it.
There are no shameful acts and tendencies, only nice people whose grievances we haven't accommodated and internalised yet.

Got it.

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