Adamant wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 7:16am:


Quote:


Tit for Tat ... You start something you better finish it.

Jan wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 8:53am:



Why would you want to quote a second rate hack as historical fact, when it is only an erroneous opinion. You could have at least gone to WIKI. Try reading the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon. If that turns out to be hard you can always take an aspirin and lie down for a bit.

The skulls are actually from the bodies of soldiers killed in battle. The Christians kept the heads of the dead soldiers for propganda usage.

What is known is that the Christian Crusaders killed every man woman and child they could get their hand on when they stormed Jerusalem.

The True Face Of Jewish Terror

In recent history we have seen Jews also slaughter women and children.

Jewish Terrorists Massacre Deir Yassin Villagers

Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun (headed by Menachem Begin) and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents.







...the victims, he said, included 25 pregnant women, 52 mothers with babies aged between a few months and a few years, and 60 girls.

Jewish Terrorist Propaganda(they wanted Jordan as well as Palestine)

Scottish newpaper details massacre by Jewish Terrorists:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=L2lAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XZUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5402,5387596&dq=deir+yassin&hl=en

New York Times:

200 ARABS KILLED, STRONGHOLD TAKEN

;
Irgun and Stern Groups Unite to Win Deir Yasin -- Kastel Is Recaptured by Haganah

JERUSALEM, April 9 -- A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern group, Jewish extremist underground forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yasin on the western outskirts of Jerusalem today. In house-to-house fighting the Jews killed more than 200 Arabs, half of them women and children.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10E15F73F5415738DDDA90994DC405B8888F1D3

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 9:38pm:



Urban II rose to speak, saying these moving and memorable words:

"We have heard the message of the Christians of the East. It described to you the lamentable situation of Jerusalem and the people of God. It described how the city of the King of Kings, which transmitted the pure Faith to all the other cities, was obliged to pay service to pagan superstitions. And how the miraculous Sepulcher where death could not guard its Prisoner, the Sepulcher which is the source of future life and, above all, where the Sun of the Resurrection rose, was befouled by those who will not rise again except to serve as straw for the eternal fire.

A victorious impiety has suffused the most fertile lands of Asia in darkness. The cities of Antioch, Ephesus and Nicaea already are taken by the Musselmen. The barbarous hordes of Turks pitch their standards at the very borders of Hellespoint, where they threaten all the Christian nations. If the one true God does not contain their triumphant march, arming their children, what nation, what kingdom will be able to close the doors of the West to them?

The people worthy of glory, the people blessed by God Our Lord, moan and fall under the weight of these outrages and most shameful humiliations. The race of the elect suffers outrageous persecutions, and the impious race of the Saracens respects neither the virgins of the Lord nor the colleges of priests. They run over the weak and the elderly, they seize the children from their mothers so that they might forget, among the barbarians, the name of God. That perverse nation profanes the hospices … The temple of the Lord is treated like a criminal and the ornaments of the sanctuary are robbed.

What more shall I say to you?

We are disgraced, sons and brothers, who live in these days of calamities! Can we look at the world in this century reproved by Heaven to witness the desolation of the Holy City and remain in peace while it is so oppressed? Is it not preferable to die in war rather than suffer any longer so horrible a spectacle? Let us all weep for our faults that raise the divine ire, yes, let us weep… But let not our tears be like the seed thrown into the sand. Let the fire of our repentance raise up the Holy War and the love of our brethren lead us into combat. Let our lives be stronger than death to fight against the enemies of the Christian people.”

Council of Claremont, 1095.

Also:
640s--Egypt and Armenia fall to Islam.

655--Muslims win a naval battle with the Byzantines; Muslims almost capture the Byzantine emperor.

711-712--Muslims invade Spain and kill the king. After the collapse of the Spanish army, Muslims begin sending raiding parties into France.

717--In the East, Muslims besiege Constantinople, the Byzantine capital.

732--The Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the Battle of Tours (though Muslims would continue raiding France for a long period).

800s--Muslims launch invasions of Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica (south-central Europe). Muslims establish pirate havens along the coast of Italy and France.

846--Muslims attack the outer areas of Rome.

1009--An unorthodox Muslim leader named Hakim (a vicious persecutor of Christians and Jews) orders the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. Many Jews and Christians flee persecution.

1071--A Byzantine army is defeated by invading Muslims. In the years to come, Byzantine emperors send numerous appeals to Rome for help.

1091--Muslim leaders expel all Christian priests from the Holy Land.

1095--Christians and non-Christians in Europe begin preparing for the First Crusade.

1099--Crusaders take Jerusalem.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:


I gave you the pope's words that declared the crusades. I gave you the timeline. You cannot argue that the crusades were not explicitly in response to muslim aggression.

Yet you come up with some clear-as-Koran, irrelevant and fantastic crap about Gillard.

Soren wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:


LOL Could you say that again ... a little larger this time please.

Adamant wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 2:34pm:


Much of what you read about the crusades is OPINION regardless of who presents it as history because many facts are lost to historians.

But you wanted WIKI so here's some pertinent snippets about the Crusades:

The Muslim conquests brought about the collapse of the Sassanid Empire and a great territorial loss for the Byzantine Empire. The reasons for the Muslim success are hard to reconstruct in hindsight, primarily because only fragmentary sources from the period have survived. Most historians agree that the Persian and Byzantine Roman empires were militarily and economically exhausted from decades of fighting one another. The rapid fall of Visigothic Spain remains even more mysterious.

the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious Christian fury that was expressed in the massacres of JEWS that accompanied the movement of the Crusader mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east.

First Crusade 1095–1099

In 1095 Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, promising those who died in the endeavour would receive immediate remission of their sins.
The official crusader armies set off from France and Italy on the 15th August 1096, at Constantinople they received a wary welcome from the Byzantine Emperor. Pledging to restore lost territories to the empire, the main army, mostly French and Norman knights under the leader Godfrey of Bouillon (1060–1100), Baldwin of Flanders, Raymond of Toulouse, Robert of Normandy, Bohemond of Taranto, marched south through Anatolia. They captured Antioch (June 3, 1098) and finally Jerusalem (July 15, 1099) in savage battles. They created four crusader states along the Syrian and Palestinian coast.

Campaigns
The Crusader armies fought the Turks. The Siege of Antioch began in October 1097 and endured until June 1098. Once inside the city, as was standard military practice when an enemy had refused to surrender the Crusaders massacred the Muslim inhabitants, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city. However, a large Muslim relief army under Kerbogha immediately besieged the victorious Crusaders within Antioch. A successful break-out on 28th June defeated Kerbogha's army . The starving crusader army marched south, reaching Jerusalem on 7 June 1099 with only a fraction of their original forces.

Siege of Jerusalem 1099
The Jews and Muslims fought together to defend Jerusalem against the invading Franks. They were unsuccessful and on 15 July 1099 the crusaders entered the city. They proceeded to massacre the remaining Jewish and Muslim civilians and pillaged or destroyed mosques and the city itself. One historian has written that the "isolation, alienation and fear" felt by the Franks so far from home helps to explain the atrocities they committed, including the cannibalism which was recorded after the Siege of Ma'arra in 1098. As a result of the First Crusade, several small Crusader states were created, notably the Kingdom of Jerusalem. In the Kingdom of Jerusalem at most 120,000 Franks (predominantly French-speaking Western Christians) ruled over 350,000 Muslims, Jews, and native Eastern Christians who had remained since the Arab occupation began in 638 AD.

Second Crusade 1147–1149

After a period of relative peace in which Christians and Muslims co-existed in the Holy Land, Muslims conquered the town of Edessa. A new crusade was called for by various preachers. French and South German armies, under the Kings Louis VII and Conrad III respectively, marched to Jerusalem in 1147 but failed to win any major victories, launching a failed pre-emptive siege of Damascus, an independent city that would soon fall into the hands of  the main enemy of the Crusaders. On the other side of the Mediterranean, however, the Second Crusade met with great success as a group of Northern European Crusaders stopped in Portugal, allied with the  King, Afonso I of Portugal, and retook Lisbon from the Muslims in 1147. A detachment from this group of crusaders helped conquer the city of Tortosa the following year. In the Holy Land by 1150, both the kings of France and Germany had returned to their countries without any result. St. Bernard of Clairvaux, who in his preachings had encouraged the Second Crusade, was upset with the amount of misdirected violence and slaughter of the Jewish population of the Rhineland..

And on it goes ....

Third Crusade 1187–1192

Fourth Crusade 1202–1204

Children's Crusade 1212
The chronicles report a spontaneous youth movement in France and Germany in 1212 attracting large numbers of peasant teenagers and young people (some under 15yrs). They were convinced they could succeed where older and more sinful crusaders had failed: Many parish priests and parents encouraged such religious fervor and urged them on. The pope and bishops opposed the attempt but failed to stop it entirely. A band of several thousand youths and young men set out for Italy. About a third survived the march over the Alps and got as far as Genoa; another group came to Marseilles. The luckier ones eventually managed to get safely home, but many others were sold as slaves in Marseilles.

On to the ......

Fifth Crusade 1217–1221

Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272

The Ninth Crusade was deemed a failure and ended the Crusades in the Middle East.
In their later years, faced with the threat of the Egyptian Mamluks, the Crusaders' hopes rested with a . were thought to be sympathetic to Christianity, and the Frankish princes engineering their invasions of the Middle East on several occasions. The Mongols successfully attacked as far south as Damascus on these campaigns. The Mamluks, led by Baibars, eventually made good their pledge to cleanse the entire Middle East of the Franks. With the fall of Antioch (1268), Tripoli (1289), and Acre (1291). those Christians unable to leave the cities were massacred or enslaved and the last traces of Christian rule in the Levant disappeared.

Aftermath
The island of Ruad, three kilometers from the Syrian shore, was occupied for several years by the Knights Templar but was ultimately lost to the Mamluks in the Siege of Ruad on September 26, 1302. The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, which was not itself a crusader state, and was not Latin Christian, but was closely associated with the crusader states and was ruled by the Latin Christian Lusignan dynasty for its last 34 years, survived until 1375. Other echoes of the crusader states survived for longer, but well away from the Holy Land itself. The Knights of St John carved out a new territory based on the Aegean island of Rhodes, which they ruled until 1522. Cyprus remained under the rule of the House of Lusignan until 1474-89,  and subsequently that of Venice until 1570. By this time the Knights of St John had moved to Malta – even further from the Holy Land – which they ruled until 1798.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:58pm:


Jews began their quest to dominate Australia from the landing of the first fleet.

Today they dominate our government and the political system.

But this FACT would elude Soren purely because he thinks them benevolent, and their banks beneficial to Australia (or himself personally).