Australian Politics Forum - Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?

matty Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11055 East Sydney Gender:	Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote? Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote? I know that the ALP continuously undermine and disregrd democracy, but that's no reason to think that the Coalition should as well.
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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote? Reply #1 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:09am This is at least the third time you've started this same topic, mellie,grow up.
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Gist

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #2 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:38am

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote? I know that the ALP continuously undermine and disregrd democracy, but that's no reason to think that the Coalition should as well.

I see that at best you have a pretty tenuous grip on the concept of democracy. Either that or you just refuse to understand.

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Verge

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:42am

Because a matter such as gay marriage should not be about a party platform, rather a conscience decision made by each member who can be held accountable by his or her electorate.

This is more a moral and personal issue, and the vote should reflect that over a "party position".

I believe matters such of this to be a party position just smacks in the face of true democracy.

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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote? Reply #4 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:45am Because he has a conscience? The same follows for Labor? And Yes, I know!
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matty

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #5 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:48am

Gist wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:38am:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote? I know that the ALP continuously undermine and disregrd democracy, but that's no reason to think that the Coalition should as well.

I see that at best you have a pretty tenuous grip on the concept of democracy. Either that or you just refuse to understand.

1.A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

The Coalition went to the last election with a policy of no carbon tax. For them to now have a conscience vote allows the member alone to decide, and disregard their constituents. So, please explain how I have misinterpreted democracy.

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philperth2010

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #6 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:09am

Tony Abbott's swing on same-sex marriage

LIBERAL leader Tony Abbott told senior colleagues last year he would allow MPs a free vote on same-sex marriage legislation -- but then changed his mind.

The Australian has learnt that in the aftermath of the Labor Party conference decision to back a conscience vote on same-sex marriage, Mr Abbott supported a similar position in the Coalition.

Sources said he later changed his position, telling Coalition MPs they were voted in on a platform of opposing same-sex marriage, and accused the Prime Minister of breaking her own commitments on the matter.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbotts-swing-on-same-sex-...

He thought it was a good idea until Labor agreed to allow a concience vote as well......then reality dawned on the Mad Monk and he realised gays might actually get the right to marry eachother if he allowed a concience vote.....What a flake Abbott is considering what he told the gay community to soften his image about gays!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-03-25/abbott-seeks-to-mend-bridges-on-gay-radio/...

Mr Abbott, who once trained in the seminary, says while he was brought up traditionally, he strives to take people as he finds them and is in favour of gay relationships being celebrated and recognised.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 8:32pm by philperth2010 »

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Gist

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #7 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:14am

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:48am:

The Coalition went to the last election with a policy of no carbon tax. For them to now have a conscience vote allows the member alone to decide, and disregard their constituents. So, please explain how I have misinterpreted democracy.

It may surprise you matty but the members are there to represent their electorate, not to represent their party. If they were allowed a conscience vote on any issue then they are free to vote as they believe the people in their electorate would want, not how the party would want.

Any conscience vote is therefore an exercise of democratic system as was intended to be. It certainly is NOT a disregarding of democracy as you claim.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #8 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:17am

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote?

Your "Mr" Howard disregarded democracy on at least FOUR occasions during his time as PM

Including on abortion drug RU486, euthanasia and cloning bills

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/cib/2002-03/03cib01.htm#table2

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matty

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #9 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 1:47pm

Gist wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:14am:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:48am:

The Coalition went to the last election with a policy of no carbon tax. For them to now have a conscience vote allows the member alone to decide, and disregard their constituents. So, please explain how I have misinterpreted democracy.

It may surprise you matty but the members are there to represent their electorate, not to represent their party. If they were allowed a conscience vote on any issue then they are free to vote as they believe the people in their electorate would want, not how the party would want.

Any conscience vote is therefore an exercise of democratic system as was intended to be. It certainly is NOT a disregarding of democracy as you claim.

It most certainly IS. The Liberals and Nationals went to the last election with a policy of no change to the marriage act. 72 electorates elected members. If they went and voted FOR homosexual marriage, then it IS undermining democracy.

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matty

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #10 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 1:48pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:17am:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote?

Your "Mr" Howard disregarded democracy on at least FOUR occasions during his time as PM

Including on abortion drug RU486, euthanasia and cloning bills

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/cib/2002-03/03cib01.htm#table2

Please explain.

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matty

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #11 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 1:50pm

Verge wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:42am:

Because a matter such as gay marriage should not be about a party platform, rather a conscience decision made by each member who can be held accountable by his or her electorate.

This is more a moral and personal issue, and the vote should reflect that over a "party position".

I believe matters such of this to be a party position just smacks in the face of true democracy.

Says whom?

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #12 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 2:04pm

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 1:48pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:17am:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote?

Your "Mr" Howard disregarded democracy on at least FOUR occasions during his time as PM

Including on abortion drug RU486, euthanasia and cloning bills

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/cib/2002-03/03cib01.htm#table2

Please explain.

To an ADULT - with a rudimentary understanding of the Westminster system - it's quite self explanatory

( ... ask your teacher)

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matty

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #13 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 7:57pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 2:04pm:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 1:48pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 11:17am:

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote?

Your "Mr" Howard disregarded democracy on at least FOUR occasions during his time as PM

Including on abortion drug RU486, euthanasia and cloning bills

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/cib/2002-03/03cib01.htm#table2

Please explain.

To an ADULT - with a rudimentary understanding of the Westminster system - it's quite self explanatory

( ... ask your teacher)

Did mr Howard ever go to an electio promising something (or a lack of something) and then reneged?

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Re: Why should Mr Abbott allow a conscience vote?
Reply #14 - Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 8:02pm

matty wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2012 at 10:06am:

Why should he disregard democracy, which he would be doing if he did allow a conscience vote? I know that the ALP continuously undermine and disregrd democracy, but that's no reason to think that the Coalition should as well.

Can you explain how it undermines democracy to allow elected representatives to vote how they see fit?

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