Australian Politics Forum - Three Things About Islam

BlOoDy RiPpEr Gold Member Offline aussie-patriot.com Posts: 2475 Sydney Gender:	Three Things About Islam Feb 5^th, 2012 at 11:23am
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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #1 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm

The propaganda video is full of misinformation.

It starts of by trying to attack Muslims for believing in their Holy Book, the Quran, and tellinfg us how Westerners don't really believe the fairy tales in the Bible. Not really a great argument.

The video says that Muslims must strive to establish Islamic law. But the video does not explain that striving can mean peaceful dialogue. Prophet Muhammed explained that the best type of striving, is to tell the truth to an oppressive ruler. The country of Yemen converted to Islam through dialogue and debating between Muslim scholars and Jewish rabbis.
The video doesn't mention that in Muslim countries administered by Islamic law, Christian and Jewish communities are allowed to have their own courts and administer their own law.

The video mentions sharia tribunals in the UK, without mentioning the fact that participation in them is wholly voluntary - and there are similar Jewish courts operating in Western countries.

The video suggests that Muslims are supposed to lie. nothing could be further from the truth.

It was the honesty of Muslims that first attracted me to find out more about the religion.

This is a fatwa by Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid, a Saudi scholar of Islam.

The importance of being truthful

What is the importance of being truthful, both in personal and business relationships, in Islam? Is lying ever considered an "acceptable" action?

Praise be to God.

Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality.

Being truthful is one of the necessities of a human society, one of the virtues of human behaviour, and brings great benefits, whilst lying is one of the major elements of corruption in human society, and the cause of the destruction of social structure and ties, one of the most evil features of bad conduct, and causes widespread harm. Hence Islam commanded truthfulness and forbade lying.

God says (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“O you who believe! Fear God, and be with those who are true (in word and deeds).” [al-Tawbah 9:119]

Ibn Katheer (one of the great scholars of Islam) said (of the above verse): “It means: be truthful and adhere to truthfulness, and you will be among its people and will be saved from calamity, and this will make a way out for you from your problems.”

God says (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“… if they had been true to God, it would have been better for them.” [Muhammad 47:21]

Abdullah ibn Mas’ood said: “The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘You must be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with God as a speaker of the truth. Beware of telling lies, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with God as a liar.” (Reported by Muslim, 4721)

This hadeeth indicates that truthfulness leads to righteousness, an all-embracing concept that includes all kinds of goodness and different kinds of righteous deeds. Immorality is basically an inclination towards deviation from the truth, and the immoral person (faajir) is one who is inclined to turn away from the path of guidance. Hence immorality and righteousness are diametrically opposed.

Al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib said: “I memorized the following statement from the Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him): ‘Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt, for truthfulness is certainty and tranquillity, whilst lying is doubt and confusion.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2520; al-Nisaa'i, 8/327; and Ahmad, 1/200)

In the lengthy hadeeth of Abu Sufyaan describing his meeting with Heraclius (ruler of the Byzantines), Abu Sufyaan said: “[Heraclius] said, ‘What does he (Muhammed) command you to do?’ I said, ‘He says: worship God alone and do not associate anything in worship with Him, and abandon that which your forefathers did. He commands us to pray, to be truthful, to be chaste and to uphold the ties of kinship.’” (Reported by al-Bukhari, 1/30 and Muslim, 1773).

Hakeem ibn Hizaam reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Two parties to a deal have the option of changing their minds until they part; if they are open and honest, their deal will be blessed, and if they conceal and tell lies, the blessing of their deal will be diminished.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4/275 and Muslim, 1532.)

Truthfulness includes being truthful towards God by worshipping Him sincerely; being truthful towards one’s own soul by making it adhere to the laws of God; and being truthful with people in one's words and by keeping one's promises, and in dealings such as buying, selling and marriage, so there should be no deceiving, cheating, falsifying or withholding of information. Thus a person should be the same on the inside and the outside.

As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin. The most obnoxious form of lying is falsely attributing things to God and His Messenger, because this involves fabrication about the religion and is an act of outrage against God. Hence one of the characteristics of the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is that he truthfully conveyed that which God commanded him to convey. So God said (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“… who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God, to lead mankind astray without knowledge. Certainly God guides not the people who are evil oppressive wrongdoers ” [al-An’am 6:144]

“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against God? Such will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, ‘These are the ones who lied against their Lord!’ No doubt! The curse of God is on the evil oppressive wrongdoers.” [Hood 11:18]

Equally bad is lying about the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him), as he is reported to have said in the mutawaatir hadeeth: “Whoever lies about me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.” (Agreed upon as an authentic narration by Bukhari and Muslim).

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way. Um Kalthoom reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “He is not a liar who reconciles between people and conveys something good or says something good.” (Reported by al-Bukhari, 2495).

Another example is a man’s speaking to his wife, or a woman speaking to her husband, with regard to matters that will strengthen the ties of love between them, even if that is accompanied by exaggeration. Asma’ bint Yazeed said: “The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a hasan hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

One of the most important forms of both being truthful and lying is in the area of promises and covenants. Being truthful in promises and covenants is one of the characteristics by which the believers are known. Both promises and covenants involve saying something about an issue to confirm that you will do it, especially with regard to one's duties towards God. God says, praising some of His worshippers (interpretation of the meanings):

“Those who are faithfully true to their trusts and to their covenants.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:8]

“… and who fulfil their covenant when they make it…” [al-Baqarah 2:177]

“Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with God, of them some have fulfilled their obligations, and some of them are still waiting, but they have never changed [i.e., they never proved treacherous to their covenant which they concluded with God] in the least.” [al-Ahzaab 33:23]

We ask God to make us sincere and truthful in word and deed. And God knows best.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #2 - Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

The video mentioned that an Islamic tribunal was operating in the the UK (without mentioning that people only participate in it voluntarily).

Well Jews have Jewish courts operating right here in Australia. So Jews must be scary people who want to take over the world according to the logic of the video.

Sydney Beth Din

Since its inception in 1905, the Sydney Beth Din has been recognised as one of the pre-eminent rabbinic courts in the world. It serves Jewish communities in Australia, New Zealand and Asia as a forum for obtaining Jewish divorces, converting to Judaism, confirming personal status and adjudicating disputes stemming from divorce, business and community issues...

http://bethdin.org.au/

Courts outside the usual legal processes can offer better outcomes

Ian Crawshaw
June 16, 2011

Why the big panic over sharia in Australia? Religious courts go hand in hand with free market democracy and are a heroic bulwark against unaffordable justice and creeping socialist totalitarianism. Let me explain why.

Already there are religious courts in operation in Australia, outside the formal legal process. These courts use ancient religious texts in adjudicating on matters as diverse as divorce, property and business dealings - even the terms relating to a financial loan.

They are the beth din, the religious courts of Australia's Jewish community. The Sydney Beth Din has been operating since 1905, and its decisions are widely respected throughout Australia, New Zealand and Asia.

Courts outside the usual legal processes can offer better outcomes

A Sharia law official whips an Indonesian man convicted of gambling.

Why the big panic over sharia in Australia? Religious courts go hand in hand with free market democracy and are a heroic bulwark against unaffordable justice and creeping socialist totalitarianism. Let me explain why.

Already there are religious courts in operation in Australia, outside the formal legal process. These courts use ancient religious texts in adjudicating on matters as diverse as divorce, property and business dealings - even the terms relating to a financial loan.

They are the beth din, the religious courts of Australia's Jewish community. The Sydney Beth Din has been operating since 1905, and its decisions are widely respected throughout Australia, New Zealand and Asia.
Advertisement: Story continues below

So what is the big deal about Islamic courts?...

...A sharia court is simply a non-legally binding option for warring parties to go to arbitration for a decision based on mutually agreed terms of reference.

Extra-judiciary arbitration is a fine tradition in the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy. Indeed, in Britain, it is actually enshrined in law with the 1996 Arbitration Act, giving disputing parties the right to approach an impartial tribunal for a decision they are both bound to accept.

There are estimated to be 85 sharia courts operating in Britain, and the kind of cases they hear and adjudicate might surprise the average Western liberal. Sharia courts are not just for the faithful. Telling the imam you have been a good Muslim all your life really doesn't cut any ice.

In a highly publicised British case in 2008, a Muslim owner of a car fleet rental company was in dispute with his non-Muslim, indigenous English (OK, white) business partner. They agreed to go to sharia for arbitration - and the non-Muslim business partner walked away with $70,000 compensation. In a normal court, that compensation would have disappeared in lawyers' fees.

Disputing parties in Australia have the right to a variety of arbitration tribunals. Got a problem with getting the rental bond back? Then off to a rent tribunal with you. Perhaps you are an Aborigine. Apply to have your grievance heard in a customary law court, a circle of elders overseen by a representative of Her Majesty's government of Australia. You might not be able to legally spear your opponent as in the traditional payback, but you get the chance to have the issue settled according to customary Aboriginal law.

So who's afraid of sharia law? Well, you fellows looking to dissolve your civil partnership after years of blissful gay marriage had best not go to a sharia court for a sensible decision. But don't go to an Australian court, either, because they don't recognise you are married...

...many democracies are proud of the religious beginnings of their judiciary and executive. Here, Federal Parliament is kicked off each morning with The Lord's Prayer. And by some unnamed Aboriginal spirits nowadays, too.

So why would you consider going to a sharia court when next in dispute with your neighbours over their noisy barbecues? Well, in sharia law, your verdict will be considered by a religious leader; a scholar who is simply passing on the message from the book. He's not ''reinterpreting'' the Koran or looking for ''loopholes'' in the words of the prophet, as a secular lawyer would. And he will remind everyone in the court, it's not his decision to make, but the prophet's, and it is applied equally to rich and poor.

Can you fault that in our Western system, where just seeking justice costs tens of thousands of dollars - and where wealthy celebrities take drugs, drink and drive, batter their servants with mobile phones and still parade their ghastly home furnishings in Hello! magazine?

If you don't like sharia, you can always go to the Department of Fair Trade. Or the beth din. Or the Newtown men's drumming circle. These ex-judiciary arbitrations are a voluntary way of avoiding the time and expense of our formal poker-machine legal system, not replacing it. Sharia courts put justice within the reach of the poor, the dispossessed and the marginalised. And to me, they cry: "Freedom!"

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/courts-outside-the-usual-legal-processes-can-offer-better-outcomes-20110615-1g3r2.html

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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #3 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:38am

Kinda like when they made Vegemite kosher about 20 years ago, and none of these goons batted an eyelid. Yet when it was then certified halal recently (nothing changed about the product itself), we saw the uproar.

You can't blame these idiots, they are just mindless drones driven by media sensationalism. They don't have a brain between them to know what's actually going on. They just mindlessly react to what the media wants them to.

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #4 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:29pm

falah wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

The propaganda video is full of misinformation.

It starts of by trying to attack Muslims for believing in their Holy Book, the Quran, and tellinfg us how Westerners don't really believe the fairy tales in the Bible. Not really a great argument.

The video says that Muslims must strive to establish Islamic law.

But the video does not explain that striving can mean peaceful dialogue. Prophet Muhammed explained that the best type of striving, is to tell the truth to an oppressive ruler......

Of course he did.
/sarc off

As per falah , Mohamed telling the truth about 'striving'......

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #5 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:40pm

falah wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

......
The importance of being truthful

What is the importance of being truthful, both in personal and business relationships, in Islam? Is lying ever considered an "acceptable" action?

Praise be to God.

Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality.

Being truthful is one of the necessities of a human society, one of the virtues of human behaviour, and brings great benefits, whilst lying is one of the major elements of corruption in human society, and the cause of the destruction of social structure and ties, one of the most evil features of bad conduct, and causes widespread harm. Hence Islam commanded truthfulness and forbade lying.

God says (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“O you who believe! Fear God, and be with those who are true (in word and deeds).” [al-Tawbah 9:119]

Ibn Katheer (one of the great scholars of Islam) said (of the above verse): “It means: be truthful and adhere to truthfulness, and you will be among its people and will be saved from calamity, and this will make a way out for you from your problems.”

God says (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“… if they had been true to God, it would have been better for them.” [Muhammad 47:21]

Abdullah ibn Mas’ood said: “The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘You must be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with God as a speaker of the truth. Beware of telling lies, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with God as a liar.” (Reported by Muslim, 4721)

This hadeeth indicates that truthfulness leads to righteousness, an all-embracing concept that includes all kinds of goodness and different kinds of righteous deeds. Immorality is basically an inclination towards deviation from the truth, and the immoral person (faajir) is one who is inclined to turn away from the path of guidance. Hence immorality and righteousness are diametrically opposed.

Al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib said: “I memorized the following statement from the Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him): ‘Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt, for truthfulness is certainty and tranquillity, whilst lying is doubt and confusion.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2520; al-Nisaa'i, 8/327; and Ahmad, 1/200)

In the lengthy hadeeth of Abu Sufyaan describing his meeting with Heraclius (ruler of the Byzantines), Abu Sufyaan said: “[Heraclius] said, ‘What does he (Muhammed) command you to do?’ I said, ‘He says: worship God alone and do not associate anything in worship with Him, and abandon that which your forefathers did. He commands us to pray, to be truthful, to be chaste and to uphold the ties of kinship.’” (Reported by al-Bukhari, 1/30 and Muslim, 1773).

Hakeem ibn Hizaam reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Two parties to a deal have the option of changing their minds until they part; if they are open and honest, their deal will be blessed, and if they conceal and tell lies, the blessing of their deal will be diminished.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4/275 and Muslim, 1532.)

Truthfulness includes being truthful towards God by worshipping Him sincerely; being truthful towards one’s own soul by making it adhere to the laws of God; and being truthful with people in one's words and by keeping one's promises, and in dealings such as buying, selling and marriage, so there should be no deceiving, cheating, falsifying or withholding of information. Thus a person should be the same on the inside and the outside.

As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin. The most obnoxious form of lying is falsely attributing things to God and His Messenger, because this involves fabrication about the religion and is an act of outrage against God. Hence one of the characteristics of the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is that he truthfully conveyed that which God commanded him to convey. So God said (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran):

“… who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God, to lead mankind astray without knowledge. Certainly God guides not the people who are evil oppressive wrongdoers ” [al-An’am 6:144]

“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against God? Such will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, ‘These are the ones who lied against their Lord!’ No doubt! The curse of God is on the evil oppressive wrongdoers.” [Hood 11:18]

Equally bad is lying about the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him), as he is reported to have said in the mutawaatir hadeeth: “Whoever lies about me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.” (Agreed upon as an authentic narration by Bukhari and Muslim).

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way. Um Kalthoom reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “He is not a liar who reconciles between people and conveys something good or says something good.” (Reported by al-Bukhari, 2495).

Another example is a man’s speaking to his wife, or a woman speaking to her husband, with regard to matters that will strengthen the ties of love between them, even if that is accompanied by exaggeration. Asma’ bint Yazeed said: “The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a hasan hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

One of the most important forms of both being truthful and lying is in the area of promises and covenants. Being truthful in promises and covenants is one of the characteristics by which the believers are known. Both promises and covenants involve saying something about an issue to confirm that you will do it, especially with regard to one's duties towards God. God says, praising some of His worshippers (interpretation of the meanings):

“Those who are faithfully true to their trusts and to their covenants.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:8]

“… and who fulfil their covenant when they make it…” [al-Baqarah 2:177]

“Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with God, of them some have fulfilled their obligations, and some of them are still waiting, but they have never changed [i.e., they never proved treacherous to their covenant which they concluded with God] in the least.” [al-Ahzaab 33:23]

We ask God to make us sincere and truthful in word and deed. And God knows best.

falah,

You should die of shame.

But i know that you have no shame.

You have only moslem 'honour'.

+++

Quote:

From the Koran, Hadith;

Allah told Mohammed, it is OK to not fulfil the oaths you make.
i.e. If you find something better, you are free to go, and make a better deal, and abandon your first oath.

"Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise."
Koran 66:2

"The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.067.427
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.078.618
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.709
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.710
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.712
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.715

"expiate my oath", means an obligation to Allah of penance [Kaffara], e.g. fasting for three days, or to clothe or feed poor people.

"If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.261

"The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: An oath or a vow about something over which a human being has no control, and to disobey Allah, and to break ties of relationship is not binding. If anyone takes an oath and then considers something else better than it, he should give it up, and do what is better, for leaving it is its atonement."
hadithsunnah/abudawud/ #021.3268

"Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "Whoever swears by Allah and then says, 'Allah willing' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath." "
hadithsunnah/muwatta/ #022.22.6.10
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260

Love is not love Which alters when it alteration
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295407319/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #6 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:26pm

falah wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

The propaganda video is full of misinformation.

This is a fatwa by Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid, a Saudi scholar of Islam.
As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin.

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way.

“The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a hasan hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

So it is ok to tell lies if you are a muslim yet only in the case of

1.You can tell lies to your wife- Is the wife allowed to lie to her husband i dont think so or the good sheikh would have mentioned it perhaps it comes under #3..

2.At times of war - Abu claims we are at war does that explain why he tells lies?

3.In order to reconcile between people.

At least you were honest in posting when a muslim can lie thank you falah.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #7 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:30pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

falah,

You should die of shame.

All praise be to God, and may peace and blessing of God be upon His Messenger Muhammed.

You, Yadda, are the one who ascribes partners to God Almighty. If anyone of us should die of shame, it should be you.

Quote:

From the Koran, Hadith;

Allah told Mohammed, it is OK to not fulfil the oaths you make.
i.e. If you find something better, you are free to go, and make a better deal, and abandon your first oath.

"Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise."
Koran 66:2

The principle here is that disobedience to God, and oaths that are not good are invalid.

In regards to the verse you have quoted, first of all, you mislead by not saying what the context of the verse is.

The verse came down when the Prophet swore an oath by God Almighty that he would never eat honey again. God Almighty immediately sent revealation to the Prophet informing him that such an oath is not accepted. God Almighty informs man thats such oaths that prevent a person from doing something good can be expiated.

Quote:

It is narrated from 'Aisha, the wife of the holy Prophet by Bukhari, Muslim, Nasai. Abu Dawud and others that the holy Prophet usually visited all his wives daily after 'Asr Prayer. Once it so happened that he stayed longer than usual at the quarters of Zainab bint Jahsh, for she had received from somewhere some honey which the holy Prophet liked very much. "At this", says 'Aisha, "I felt jealous, and Hafsa, Sawda, Safiya, and I agreed among ourselves that when he visits us each of us would tell him that a peculiar odour came from his mouth as a result of what he had eaten, for we knew that he was particularly sensitive to offensive smells". So when his wives hinted at it, he vowed that he would never again use honey. Thereupon these verses were revealed reminding him that he should not declare to himself unlawful that which God had made lawful to him. The important point to bear in mind is that he was at once rectified by revelation, which reinforces the fact that the prophets are always under divine protection, and even the slightest lapse on their part is never left uncorrected.

Secondly the translation you have provided is not correct. A better translation reads something like this:

1. O Prophet! Why do you make forbidden (for yourself) that which God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

2. God has already ordained for you, the expiation of your oaths. And God is your Protector and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise.

God is being merciful. If someone swears to God that they will refrain from something, and this oath prevents the person from doing a good deed or what is righteous, then God has allowed the person to do the good deed.

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

"The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: An oath or a vow about something over which a human being has no control, and to disobey Allah, and to break ties of relationship is not binding. If anyone takes an oath and then considers something else better than it, he should give it up, and do what is better, for leaving it is its atonement."
hadithsunnah/abudawud/ #021.3268

The principle is that an evil oath or one that prevents a person from obeying God or doing good is not valid. Disobeying God is makes an oath invalid. For example, if someone swears an oath to kill an innocent person, he must break his oath.

Quote:

"Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "Whoever swears by Allah and then says, 'Allah willing' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath." "
hadithsunnah/muwatta/ #022.22.6.10

Once again your translation is inaccurate. A more accurate translation would be "Whoever swears by God and then says (as part of his oath), '...if God wills.' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath."It is just a matter of common sense. If someone said "I will do such and such, if God wills." Then if he was unable to do it, obviously God didn't will it, so he has told the truth.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #8 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:41pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 5:26pm:

falah wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

The propaganda video is full of misinformation.

This is a fatwa by Muhammed Salih al-Munajjid, a Saudi scholar of Islam.
As regards lying, it is highly forbidden, and is of varying degrees of abhorrence and sin.

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way.

“The Messenger of God (Muhammed, peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a hasan hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

So it is ok to tell lies if you are a muslim yet only in the case of

1.You can tell lies to your wife- Is the wife allowed to lie to her husband i dont think so or the good sheikh would have mentioned it perhaps it comes under #3..

2.At times of war - Abu claims we are at war does that explain why he tells lies?

3.In order to reconcile between people.

At least you were honest in posting when a muslim can lie thank you falah.

A husband and wife can tell small lies to each other. It could be detrimental to a marriage if this exception were not allowed. Imagine if all husbands answered their wives truthfully when asked "Does this clothing make me look fat?" or "So, how was my cooking?"

Even in warfare, Muslims are not allowed to lie about Islam. Deceit in warfare applies to strategies and tactics. All countries use deceit in warfare. Did the US announce to the Nazis where they would land on D-Day? Or did the US try to deceive the Nazis and make them think that they would land elsewhere?

Reconciling between two people applies to Muslims only and would involve saying "So and so said something good about you". It is not a carte blanche to tell any sort of lie.

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #9 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:51pm

A snippet from falah's post.....
Quote:

The principle here is that disobedience to God, and oaths that are not good are invalid.

".....oaths that are not good are invalid."

Yadda paraphrases.....

'I'll make you a promise [a covenant]. And at a later date, if i judge that my promise [my covenant] is not a 'good' promise, then my promise [my covenant] is invalid.'

What a crock of moslem double-speak.

+++

Here, is one of falah's other posts, just yesterday, telling us all, about how truthful and trust worthy moslems are, and how honouring their covenants is soooooo important to a moslem.......

falah wrote on Feb 5^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

The importance of being truthful

yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada,................

One of the most important forms of both being truthful and lying is in the area of promises and covenants.

Being truthful in promises and covenants is one of the characteristics by which the believers are known.

err, excepting [i.e. the moslem 'get out'] if......

'If make you a promise [a covenant]. And at a later date, if i judge that my promise [my covenant] is not a 'good' promise, then my promise [my covenant] is invalid.'

+++

What does God's Bible say about a man keeping to his word, to his agreements, to his covenants......???

Numbers 30:2
If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #10 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:00pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:51pm:

What does God's Bible say about a man keeping to his word, to his agreements, to his covenants......???

Numbers 30:2
If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

How highly does God, regard men, in keeping to their word [their spoken agreements]........... ???

Psalms 15:1
LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

"......He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #11 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:11pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Quote:

"Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "Whoever swears by Allah and then says, 'Allah willing' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath." "
hadithsunnah/muwatta/ #022.22.6.10

Once again your translation is inaccurate. A more accurate translation would be "Whoever swears by God and then says (as part of his oath), '...if God wills.' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath."It is just a matter of common sense.

If someone said "I will do such and such, if God wills." Then if he was unable to do it, obviously God didn't will it, so he has told the truth.

Yadda paraphrases......

"I will do something for you, i sware by Allah. But hey, if Allah doesn't allow me to follow through on my oath, and fulfil my promise, then you can take it up with Allah.
COZ, IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IF I DIDN'T DO WHAT I SAID I WOULD."

What a crock.i+++

What does this all mean ???

It means, in reality, that a verbal agreement with a moslem, isn't worth the paper that it is written on.

And even many of those [i.e. the written ones] turn out to be worthless.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #12 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:17pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

falah,

You should die of shame.

All praise be to God, and may peace and blessing of God be upon His Messenger Muhammed.

falah,

You are merely uttering a curse upon yourself.

++++++++

And, partners with God ?

You have no understanding.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #13 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 9:09pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 7:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

falah,

You should die of shame.

All praise be to God, and may peace and blessing of God be upon His Messenger Muhammed.

falah,

You are merely uttering a curse upon yourself.

++++++++

And, partners with God ?

You have no understanding.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

I suggest that we ask God to curse which ever one of us is on the false religion. Do you agree?

Polytheism In The Bible

In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.
Genesis 6:4

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
Deuteronomy 32:8

Meanwhile, the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn sons, whom the LORD had killed the night before. The LORD had defeated the gods of Egypt that night with great acts of judgment!
Numbers 33:4

A psalm for David, at the finishing of the tabernacle. Bring to the Lord, O ye children of God: bring to the Lord the offspring of rams.
Psalm 29:1

God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.
Psalm 82:1

There is none like you among the gods, O Lord,
nor are there any works like yours.
Psalms 86:8)

For the LORD is a great God, a great King above all gods.
Psalm 95:3

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...Thou art my beloved
Son; in thee I am well pleased.

2 Peter 1:17 ...This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 28:19
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23

Matthew 28:19
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Unity of Islam or "Trinity" of Christianity, which one sounds polytheistic?

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #14 - Feb 6^th, 2012 at 9:38pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 9:09pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

And, partners with God ?

You have no understanding.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

I suggest that we ask God to curse which ever one of us is on the false religion. Do you agree?

Polytheism In The Bible

In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.
Genesis 6:4

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
Deuteronomy 32:8

Meanwhile, the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn sons, whom the LORD had killed the night before. The LORD had defeated the gods of Egypt that night with great acts of judgment!
Numbers 33:4

A psalm for David, at the finishing of the tabernacle. Bring to the Lord, O ye children of God: bring to the Lord the offspring of rams.
Psalm 29:1

God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.
Psalm 82:1

There is none like you among the gods, O Lord,
nor are there any works like yours.
Psalms 86:8)

For the LORD is a great God, a great King above all gods.
Psalm 95:3

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...Thou art my beloved
Son; in thee I am well pleased.

2 Peter 1:17 ...This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 28:19
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23

Matthew 28:19
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Unity of Islam or "Trinity" of Christianity, which one sounds polytheistic?

falah,

I could explain the 'trinity' to you, but, you are a moslem [.......i.e. there is no capacity for understanding anything spiritual].

And MY explanation would not help you.

We need more spiritual power [....for you to comprehend].

So, pray to God.

Maybe he will have pity upon you.

But pray to which God ???

falah,

You have to pray to >> GOD <<, the real one.
......not to a demon.

Listen to me carefully;

What you have to say is;

"Dear father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.....[and then plead you case]."

.....that is the correct 'phone #'

Exodus 3:15
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Got it falah ?

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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