Australian Politics Forum - Three Things About Islam

Soren

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #75 - Feb 13^th, 2012 at 10:43pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:15am:

They indeed were favoured.... 'were' being the key word here. That favour was dependant on them fulfilling their duties, which they did not, and so the favour was taken from them. Quite simple actually, most simpletons would've picked up on that one.

So Allah favoured them because he hadn't yet realised, trusting deity that he is, that one day he would be bitterly disappointed with his chosen people. So when Allah realised his disappointment, he, like anyone else who does learn from his own mistakes, turned his favour away from the Jews.

Yeah, makes sense if your schtick is 'we are the next chosen people' (ie Muslims). But otherwise it doesn't work.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #76 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:47am Sounds like you are describing the Christian doctrine there soren, not the Muslim one.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #77 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 6:27am

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

What is your opinion on the honesty of the shia Abu or falah, are they full of taqiyya or totally honest?

They clearly have a teaching in which they can lie and twist any aspect of their beliefs in order to dupe non-Shi'a. This can be found in their books.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

If we research Islamic websites we find the sunni/salafi are allowed to lie yet only under certain conditions what word should we use for this Abu or Falah?

This is nonsense. Show me any authentic Islamic book which says this. You've already been informed that a Muslim may tell "white lies" only in 3 specific cases. Anything beyond them, lying is a grave sin.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Is Australia considered Dar al Harb ?

None of the Islamic classifications of land have any meaning in the absence of a Caliphate. Dar ul-Harb without the contrast of Dar ul-Islam is completely meaningless. The entire world is currently Dar ul-Kufr. Not that it has any bearing on telling the truth anyway, Muslims are commanded to tell the truth wherever they may be.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #78 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:17pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 6:27am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

What is your opinion on the honesty of the shia Abu or falah, are they full of taqiyya or totally honest?

They clearly have a teaching in which they can lie and twist any aspect of their beliefs in order to dupe non-Shi'a. This can be found in their books.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

If we research Islamic websites we find the sunni/salafi are allowed to lie yet only under certain conditions what word should we use for this Abu or Falah?

This is nonsense. Show me any authentic Islamic book which says this. You've already been informed that a Muslim may tell "white lies" only in 3 specific cases. Anything beyond them, lying is a grave sin.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

Is Australia considered Dar al Harb ?

None of the Islamic classifications of land have any meaning in the absence of a Caliphate. Dar ul-Harb without the contrast of Dar ul-Islam is completely meaningless. The entire world is currently Dar ul-Kufr. Not that it has any bearing on telling the truth anyway, Muslims are commanded to tell the truth wherever they may be.

Thanks for clarifying the case with the shia abu.

So in those 3 cases you are allowed to lie we should call them "white lies" is that the words you prefer we use?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #79 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:20pm

falah wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

Yadda, taqqyia is only practiced by Shi-ites. Orthodox mainstream Muslims do not believe in taqqiya.

You know this but you keep bringing it up. Obviously it is you that is the deceiver!

falah,

That is not true.

In fact your statement is yet more taqiyya, from you.

Quote:

......Taqiyya is, therefore, not, as is often supposed, an exclusively Shi'i phenomenon. Of course, as a minority group interspersed among their Sunni enemies, the Shi'a have historically had more reason to dissemble. Conversely, Sunni Islam rapidly dominated vast empires from Spain to China. As a result, its followers were beholden to no one, had nothing to apologize for, and had no need to hide from the infidel nonbeliever (rare exceptions include Spain and Portugal during the Reconquista when Sunnis did dissimulate over their religious identity[6]). Ironically, however, Sunnis living in the West today find themselves in the place of the Shi'a: Now they are the minority surrounded by their traditional enemies—Christian infidels—even if the latter, as opposed to their Reconquista predecessors, rarely act on, let alone acknowledge, this historic enmity. In short, Sunnis are currently experiencing the general circumstances that made taqiyya integral to Shi'ism although without the physical threat that had so necessitated it.

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

falah,

These moslems were NOT Shiite moslems, they were Sunni....

n.b.
This is only one example....

GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit
"The Undercover Mosque: The return"
"A group of Christians visiting the mosque and the preacher and the Women's Circle treat [the Christians] kindly and talk about,

'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."

BUT, THE SAME GOOD MOSLEM THEN SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE...
"Just as soon as that group of visitors [the Christians] leaves, the language changes completely. 'CHRISTIANITY IS VILE', the preacher says....."

Source;
ABC Radio National Religion interview transcript - "The Undercover Mosque: The return"
".....Stephen Crittenden: .....your program highlights a certain kind of duplicity. When they're caught out, individuals don't miss a [beat], they just say they've been taken out of context....
David Henshaw: ......Regent's Park Mosque is officially committed to inter-faith dialogue....."
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2008/2360820.htm#transcript

Why were these Sunni moslems [above] lying, deceiving, the Christians ?

Q.
Why didn't these Sunni moslems tell the truth falah ?

A.
Taqiyya.

Google;

undercover mosque

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #80 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:34pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:15am:

They [Jews] indeed were favoured.... 'were' being the key word here. That favour was dependant on them fulfilling their duties, which they did not, and so the favour was taken from them. Quite simple actually, most simpletons would've picked up on that one.

Abu,

Yours is a very superficial, and naive assessment/opinion of the ['current'] circumstance of the Jewish people.

It is also a mistaken opinion.

Abu,

Why haven't you moslems been able to destroy the Jewish people ???

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

See my post here.....

Quote:

......Back in the books of Moses, in 'the law' books, God warned the people of Israel, that they would break their covenant, and that he would punish the the people of Israel for their conduct.

Even, that he would scatter the people of Israel, among the 'heathen', among all the peoples of the world.

Deuteronomy 4:26
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.

Deuteronomy 28:64
And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

But God also promised that he would NEVER cast off the people of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 51:5
For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.

Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327483631/106#106

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #81 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:59pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 6:27am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 8:01pm:

If we research Islamic websites we find the sunni/salafi are allowed to lie yet only under certain conditions what word should we use for this Abu or Falah?

This is nonsense. Show me any authentic Islamic book which says this.

You've already been informed that a Muslim may tell "white lies" only in 3 specific cases. Anything beyond them, lying is a grave sin.

Quote:

Sunnis vs. Shi'ites

An Outline Of The Differences Between The Sunnis and The Shi'ite in Matters of Faith And Doctrine
........
Taqiyyah (Calculated Deception)
Sunnis
It is defined as presenting an outer appearance that belies what one conceals inside, to protect oneself from harm. It is considered impermissible for a Muslim to deceive other Muslims, because of the Prophet's saying: Whoever deceives is not of us." Resorting to taqiyyah is permitted only in one situation: during war against the disbelievers who are the enemies of Islam. That is part of the etiquette of war. It is incumbent on the Muslim to be truthful and courageous in upholding the truth, and to be neither ostentatious, nor deceiving, nor treacherous. He should give sincere counsel, enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil.

http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_vs_sunni.htm#11

"It is incumbent on the Muslim to be truthful and courageous in upholding the truth, and to be neither ostentatious, nor deceiving, nor treacherous. He should give sincere counsel, enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil."
<----- OMISSION; When in conversation with fellow Sunni moslems.

Sunni Taqiyya...

Google;

"an outer appearance that belies what one conceals inside"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #82 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:01pm Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:34pm: Why haven't you moslems been able to destroy the Jewish people ??? Because God sends Christian Hitlers to destroy them.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21722 A cat with a view	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #83 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:28pm falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:01pm: Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:34pm: Why haven't you moslems been able to destroy the Jewish people ??? Because God sends Christian Hitlers to destroy them. Ah, the Jewish people are destroyed, and no longer exist then ? In your dreams falah. LOL
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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #84 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:28pm:

falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:01pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

Why haven't you moslems been able to destroy the Jewish people ???

Because God sends Christian Hitlers to destroy them.

Ah, the Jewish people are destroyed, and no longer exist then ?

In your dreams falah.

LOL

Yeah Christian Hitler only killed 6 million Jews. That is not many for you is it?

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #85 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:50pm

falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:01pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 8:34pm:

Why haven't you moslems been able to destroy the Jewish people ???

Because God sends Christian Hitlers to destroy them.

falah,

Mohammed said [that Allah said], that moslems must kill all of the Jews.

Isn't that correct falah ?

Google;
Mohammed, The Last Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them

Don't you believe your prophet, falah ?

falah,

If you are truly a good moslem, shouldn't you go to Syria, to aid your Sunni 'brothers' ?

And if you wanted to, while you were there, you could throw yourself at the Syria / Israel border fence.

Yes?

As a gesture.

fala, Allah rebukes you....

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Koran 9.38, 39

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #86 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:10pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:17pm:

So in those 3 cases you are allowed to lie we should call them "white lies" is that the words you prefer we use?

How about you answer for me?

1) How do you perceive deception in warfare? Given that ALL military forces throughout history have engaged in it, and the greatest war manuals have described it as central to the art of war?

2) Do you think it's wrong to bend the truth with your spouse relating to matters that increase love between you? If you have a spouse for instance, do you tell her that her cooking is bad or that she's fat? If not, do you consider this anything other than a white lie?

3) Likewise have you never bent the truth to reconcile two parties? To encourage them to make up?

Honestly, any person who considers these 3 things to be the same as lying is just an absolute imbecile.

Your arguments about Islam are based on nothing but pettiness and stupidity, you don't even deserve the time of day, because your intellect is obviously about the same level as a small child. Anyone who is arguing that war doesn't involve lying is truly detached from reality.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #87 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

falah,

Mohammed said [that Allah said], that moslems must kill all of the Jews.

Do you do anything but lie Yadda? You accuse Muslims of lying but all your Christian fingers can do is type lies.

The prophet said no such thing.

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

Google;
Mohammed, The Last Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them

Don't you believe your prophet, falah ?

This is a prophesy not a command. The Jews will fight the Muslims, and they will lose.

Israel will be responsible for its own demise:

Israel rejects Obama peace plan

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/israel-rejects-obama-peace-plan-palestinians-cagey-20110520-1evab.html

Israel rejects Arab peace initiative

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1547036/Israel-rejects-Arab-peace-initiative.html

[/quote]

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #88 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 11:02pm

falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

falah,

Mohammed said [that Allah said], that moslems must kill all of the Jews.

Do you do anything but lie Yadda? You accuse Muslims of lying but all your Christian fingers can do is type lies.

The prophet said no such thing.

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

Google;
Mohammed, The Last Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them

Don't you believe your prophet, falah ?

This is a prophesy not a command. The Jews will fight the Muslims, and they will lose.

falah,

It is strange.

It is strange how everyone 'misunderstands' ISLAM.

Moslems misunderstand ISLAM.

Non-moslems misunderstand ISLAM.

Yadda misunderstands ISLAM.
/sarc off

Hey falah,

I am happy for people who frequent OzPol, to read our posts, your posts, and my posts, and decide for themselves who 'understands' ISLAM better.

e.g.
Yadda said....
Google;
Mohammed, The Last Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them

falah responded.....

"This is a prophesy not a command."

Hey falah,

You are clearly, not a very good moslem.

And Allah is going to punish you.

You just don't 'get it' do you, falah ?

Allah tries to 'guide' you.

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Koran 9.38, 39

But you just don't 'get it',
.......disobedience to Allah is verboten !!!!!

That Syria / Israel border fence is waiting for you, falah.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #89 - Feb 14^th, 2012 at 11:21pm

falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

Israel will be responsible for its own demise:

Israel rejects Obama peace plan

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/israel-rejects-obama-peace-plan-palestinians-cagey-20110520-1evab.html

Israel rejects Arab peace initiative

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1547036/Israel-rejects-Arab-peace-initiative.html

Yes, well, we all know what is going to happen, don't we falah ?

Heard it all before, Israel will be destroyed by ".....the ocean of Muslims in the Middle East."

Quote:

abu.....
".....the ocean of Muslims in the Middle East will wash the Zionist cancer away".

......
Iranian President Ahmadinejad agrees with you too, abu...

"The ocean of rage of the people of the region will surge and eradicate the Zionist regime."

YOUTUBE
Farewell Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-IwwfeLp4M

Jihad for Kids, Birds of Paradise
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1246764874/32#32

Isaiah 17:12
Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!
13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
14 And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

Isaiah 59:19
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Jeremiah 46:7
Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
8 Egypt riseth up like a flood, and his waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith, I will go up, and will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof.
9 Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle and bend the bow.
10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Its amazing that none of you moslems have ever read the OT.

Ah yes, the Jewish OT is verboten 'discredited', so you just dismiss it, out of hand. Cheesy

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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