Australian Politics Forum - Three Things About Islam

Soren

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #90 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

Sounds like you are describing the Christian doctrine there soren, not the Muslim one.

Au contraire. You described an Allah who dispenses favours, unawares that it is undeserved:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:15am:

They indeed were favoured.... 'were' being the key word here. That favour was dependant on them fulfilling their duties, which they did not, and so the favour was taken from them. Quite simple actually, most simpletons would've picked up on that one.

Jesus was a jew. Mohammed wasn't. Christianity is a Jewish religion for Greeks (ie gentiles).

Islam is an Arab misunderstanding of two non-Arab religions.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #91 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:10pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:17pm:

So in those 3 cases you are allowed to lie we should call them "white lies" is that the words you prefer we use?

How about you answer for me?

1) How do you perceive deception in warfare? Given that ALL military forces throughout history have engaged in it, and the greatest war manuals have described it as central to the art of war?

2) Do you think it's wrong to bend the truth with your spouse relating to matters that increase love between you? If you have a spouse for instance, do you tell her that her cooking is bad or that she's fat? If not, do you consider this anything other than a white lie?

3) Likewise have you never bent the truth to reconcile two parties? To encourage them to make up?

Honestly, any person who considers these 3 things to be the same as lying is just an absolute imbecile.

Your arguments about Islam are based on nothing but pettiness and stupidity, you don't even deserve the time of day, because your intellect is obviously about the same level as a small child. Anyone who is arguing that war doesn't involve lying is truly detached from reality.

1)Is it possible some muslims do not understand the texts and consider Australia to be dar al harb therefore they can tell lies to Australians?

The navy had a saying loose lips sink ships so that indicates it is better to say nothing when it comes to war.

Do you think these muslims are being honest with their reporting,the bodycount they give does not match the recorded deaths from the allies.
http://www.theunjustmedia.com

2)I think it is wrong to lie to your wife by doing that it indicates you have serious trust issues and without trust you have nothing.
The best relationships are based on honesty and you only have to lie if you are trying to hide something.
If her cooking is bad how will she know if you do not tell her is it better to put up with food you dont like or ask her to try something different.
Do you think your wife would be happy if you pretend to like her food?

If your wife says does this dress make me look fat i would probably reply "its that junk food that makes you fat ,not the dress" at least by being honest she can find a solution.
I think women should also be honest in a relationship and this means no faking orgasms which is an act of deception.
A real man would prefer to know he was ineffective than be deceived.

3) I would never lie to help 2 parties reconcile.
Do you like being lied to Abu?
If you are totally honest then both parties know where they stand which means it will be easier to find a solution.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #92 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

Au contraire. You described an Allah who dispenses favours, unawares that it is undeserved:

I'm really not following you on this one Soren. You seem to be implying God could not bestow favours upon people unless he could be absolutely 100% sure they'd never lose that favour? Got any other good strawmen up your sleeve? Cos that one's just a load of nonsense.

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

Jesus was a jew. Mohammed wasn't. Christianity is a Jewish religion for Greeks (ie gentiles).

Most importantly, they were both Muslims, submitters to the one true God.

Besides the difference between a Jew and an Arab ethnically is about as big as that between an Athenian and a Spartan... all Greeks right?

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

Islam is an Arab misunderstanding of two non-Arab religions.

Islam is not tied to any ethnicity, nor was the religion of any of the prophets. Judaism is a deviation/misunderstanding of that religion into an ethno-centric cult. Christianity is just a confused offshoot of that cult which also believes that ethnicity is superior. And you are an even further confused offshoot who doesn't believe in any of the religions but still believes the ethnicity is superior Huh

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Soren

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #93 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:32pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

Au contraire. You described an Allah who dispenses favours, unawares that it is undeserved:

I'm really not following you on this one Soren. You seem to be implying God could not bestow favours upon people unless he could be absolutely 100% sure they'd never lose that favour? Got any other good strawmen up your sleeve? Cos that one's just a load of nonsense.

So Allah didn't know that the jews would disappoint him? Seems to be very unaware, for a god.
What else doesn't he know?

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #94 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:35pm abu_rashid wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm: Most importantly, they were both Muslims, submitters to the one true God. That's a handy doctrine, isn't it. Which accounts (other than the Koran) do you accept about Jesus?
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Soren

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #95 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:52pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

[quote author=504C51464D11230 link=1328405030/90#90 date=1329257320]Islam is an Arab misunderstanding of two non-Arab religions.

Islam is not tied to any ethnicity, nor was the religion of any of the prophets. Judaism is a deviation/misunderstanding of that religion into an ethno-centric cult. Christianity is just a confused offshoot of that cult which also believes that ethnicity is superior. And you are an even further confused offshoot who doesn't believe in any of the religions but still believes the ethnicity is superior Huh

Judaism isn't tied to ethnicity either and christianity certainly isn't.
With Islam, Arabs are privileged because of the language of Islam. Greeks are not privileged in Christianity and hebrew speakers are not better jews than English speakers. Jewishness is not about where you were born or what language you speak (ie ethnicity) but about how you relate to the god of the jews and to other jews and people in general. Christianity is the same in this regard. The jews regard themselves as the light onto others. Christians are expressly calling you out of your nations.

Muslims want you to submit to them. And Islam is fundamentally Arabic. Even on this forum, you and falah will resort, when you have run out of arguments, to Arabic as the final arbiter and will dismiss criticism on the basis of the critic's lack of Arabic.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #96 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 9:57pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

2)I think it is wrong to lie to your wife by doing that it indicates you have serious trust issues and without trust you have nothing.

Based on this comment, I am fairly sure you are either not married, or your marriage is on the rocks.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

Do you think your wife would be happy if you pretend to like her food?

I am pretty sure a wife will be a lot unhappier if you tell her how crap her cooking really tastes. Imagine: "Do your like my cooking?" "Nah tastes like crap. I never knew food could taste this bad, but you've shown me something new today."

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

If your wife says does this dress make me look fat i would probably reply "its that junk food that makes you fat ,not the dress" at least by being honest she can find a solution.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

I think women should also be honest in a relationship and this means no faking orgasms which is an act of deception. A real man would prefer to know he was ineffective than be deceived.

I don't know why a woman would need to fake an orgasm, but sounds like you have put a lot of thought into the subject, and are an expert on fake orgasms.

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #97 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:28pm

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

So Allah didn't know that the jews would disappoint him? Seems to be very unaware, for a god.
What else doesn't he know?

The Creator and Sustainer of all existence of course knows everything.

Still I'm not following how this all maps out to not favouring a people if they'll fall from grace.

Do you also have some warped belief where God doesn't give water to people if he knows they'll spill it? Or else he must not have known they were going to spill it?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #98 - Feb 15^th, 2012 at 10:34pm

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Judaism isn't tied to ethnicity either and christianity certainly isn't.

Yes they are, the Jewish race is considered some kind of superior race. Jews themselves mostly believe this, and many Christian sects also have come to believe this.

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

With Islam, Arabs are privileged because of the language of Islam.

Anyone can speak a language. Nothing ethno-centric about that.

“O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety.”

Clearly you are a liar.

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Even on this forum, you and falah will resort, when you have run out of arguments, to Arabic as the final arbiter and will dismiss criticism on the basis of the critic's lack of Arabic.

I don't believe either of us have ever done any such thing.

However, you must recognise that if an Islamic text uses a specific word, and you try to re-define that word according to the English meaning, then obviously it ain't gonna fly.

That's not dismissing criticism, that's just common sense, something you appear to have a serious lack of.

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freediver

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #99 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:42am

Quote:

I don't need to contradict it, because it is the truth. Whoever rejects the monotheism of Islam will go to Hell.

That is basic islamic doctrine, why would I wish to contradict it?

Normally you just change the topic or blame the Jews. Can you clarify why you are able to give a straight answer on this aspect of Islamic doctrine but so few others?

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

falah, what they seem to believe, based on some garbage from jihadwatch it seems, is that Muslims supposedly commit taqiyyah because we're given license to hide our Islam at pain of death.

They extrapolate this out, and probably mix it with the Shi'a practice and then claim Muslims can lie about anything in order to deceive non-Muslims, and this is supposedly some part of Islam called taqiyyah. The best part (for them) about their claims is that you can't deny it either, because if you do, then you're probably just practicing taqiyyah anyway. Win-win situation, or so they think. Deluding themselves only it seems.

Can you offer an alternative explanation for your own self contradictions, like with Dhimmy evidence?

Quote:

They clearly have a teaching in which they can lie and twist any aspect of their beliefs in order to dupe non-Shi'a. This can be found in their books.

Where is this teaching?

Quote:

Not that it has any bearing on telling the truth anyway, Muslims are commanded to tell the truth wherever they may be.

So what is the truth about the status of Dhimmy evidence given in Islamic courts?

Quote:

How about you answer for me?

1) How do you perceive deception in warfare? Given that ALL military forces throughout history have engaged in it, and the greatest war manuals have described it as central to the art of war?

Sure, deception is part of military strategy.

So tell us Abu, does your belief that the west is at war with Islam give you moral justification to lie?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315699128

Quote:

However, you must recognise that if an Islamic text uses a specific word, and you try to re-define that word according to the English meaning, then obviously it ain't gonna fly.

Abu you constantly redefine English words to suit your argument.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #100 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:49pm

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Sure, deception is part of military strategy.

So tell us Abu, does your belief that the west is at war with Islam give you moral justification to lie?

Lie about what? The justification for deception in war relates to deceptive military strategies - not lying about religion.

The deception is between two states not between individuals who are not involved in the war.

There is no permission in Islam to lie about Islam.

Even if Abu Rashid believed that he was at war with you, he still would not be permitted to lie about Islam.

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Soren

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #101 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:58pm

falah wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Sure, deception is part of military strategy.

So tell us Abu, does your belief that the west is at war with Islam give you moral justification to lie?

Lie about what? The justification for deception in war relates to deceptive military strategies - not lying about religion.

The deception is between two states not between individuals who are not involved in the war.

There is no permission in Islam to lie about Islam.

Even if Abu Rashid believed that he was at war with you, he still would not be permitted to lie about Islam.

Are you currently living in the House of Islam or the House of War?

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falah

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Re: Three Things About Islam
Reply #102 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 6:03pm

Soren wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

falah wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:42am:

Sure, deception is part of military strategy.

So tell us Abu, does your belief that the west is at war with Islam give you moral justification to lie?

Lie about what? The justification for deception in war relates to deceptive military strategies - not lying about religion.

The deception is between two states not between individuals who are not involved in the war.

There is no permission in Islam to lie about Islam.

Even if Abu Rashid believed that he was at war with you, he still would not be permitted to lie about Islam.

Are you currently living in the House of Islam or the House of War?

What is the house of Islam? What is the house of war?

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #103 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 6:14pm falah wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 6:03pm: What is the house of Islam? What is the house of war? Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb
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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: Three Things About Islam Reply #104 - Feb 17^th, 2012 at 7:15pm Soren wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 6:14pm: falah wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 6:03pm: What is the house of Islam? What is the house of war? Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb Yes. But what are they? Do they exist today?
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