Australian Politics Forum - leftist ideology in a nutshell

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95651 Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #195 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 1:09pm You're pretty good at that yourself, Bolshie.
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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #196 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 3:17pm How so?
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Grey

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Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell
Reply #197 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 3:44pm

... wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 5:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

Contradict my post about arguing? I can't.

Anyway, I'm a hopeless arguer. I always end up agreeing.

So you'd agree that

A declaration of war against the order of things which exist, against the state of things which exist, in a word, against the structure of the world which presently exists”.

adequately sums up progressive goals?

Of course not.

Quote:

What's the matter with the structure of the world which presently exists? It's not perfect, but nor does it deserve to have war waged on it.

If you knock down a dilapidated old house to build a new one is that a war against housing? Entropy happens, all systems fall into corruption and need renewal from time to time. I'm sick of saying this, but capitalism was a good idea at the time (1602). The point was to concentrate money into big bundles for use in big projects. Like the board game that emulates it MONOPOLYtm, that process inevitably has an end game. That point has been reached and constantly deferred many times. It has created a totally unbalanced world economy and a situation where every country owes money. 'Securities' are still being sold despite an underlying two quadrillion dollars worth of derivative trades making a mockery of book-keeping and creating the ongoing Global Financial Crisis. And some plonkers keep asking "what's wrong with the system" Durrrhhh.

Nobody I relate to wants a 'war'. Wars are stupid and destructive, even as analogy. There's a limit to repair work as an effective means of keeping a structure together. Don't pull down the old house before the new one is constructed; but for gods sake it's time we started on a new building.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #198 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 5:40pm well said Grey.
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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #199 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 6:01pm Emma wrote on Feb 12^th, 2012 at 5:40pm: well said Grey. And whole-heartedly seconded.
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Karnal

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Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell
Reply #200 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 7:42pm

Very true, Grey. We've been rattling on about the fundamental importance of skin colour and the emasculation of the old boys that we forgot the real game: the economy.

I don't even think the knuckleheads will have a problem with what you've said. Mind you, with the exception of Matty, they do have very low attention spans.

Personally, I think it would be nice if the so-called progressives could pry themselves away from identity politics and back to the economy, but the knuckleheads keep distracting them. Piers, Gerard, Bolt et al do it deliberately, I'm sure. Howard - and now Abbott - are masters at this game, but Howard lived in much more sunny times.

Of course, the blacks had the technology of the stick, so we're behind the eight ball right there.

If the supermarkets run out of food, we'll be rather stuck.

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...

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Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell
Reply #201 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 7:55pm

Grey wrote on Feb 12^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

... wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 5:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

Contradict my post about arguing? I can't.

Anyway, I'm a hopeless arguer. I always end up agreeing.

So you'd agree that

A declaration of war against the order of things which exist, against the state of things which exist, in a word, against the structure of the world which presently exists”.

adequately sums up progressive goals?

Of course not.

Quote:

What's the matter with the structure of the world which presently exists? It's not perfect, but nor does it deserve to have war waged on it.

If you knock down a dilapidated old house to build a new one is that a war against housing? Entropy happens, all systems fall into corruption and need renewal from time to time. I'm sick of saying this, but capitalism was a good idea at the time (1602). The point was to concentrate money into big bundles for use in big projects. Like the board game that emulates it MONOPOLYtm, that process inevitably has an end game. That point has been reached and constantly deferred many times. It has created a totally unbalanced world economy and a situation where every country owes money. 'Securities' are still being sold despite an underlying two quadrillion dollars worth of derivative trades making a mockery of book-keeping and creating the ongoing Global Financial Crisis. And some plonkers keep asking "what's wrong with the system" Durrrhhh.

Nobody I relate to wants a 'war'. Wars are stupid and destructive, even as analogy. There's a limit to repair work as an effective means of keeping a structure together. Don't pull down the old house before the new one is constructed; but for gods sake it's time we started on a new building.

'Snot just capitalism they were waging war on though. gender roles, marriage, tribal identity etc are all above capitalism - they are the foundation of humanity. Hunter gatherers had well known gender roles well before "capitalist o-pression". If it's a war on capitalism you want, go for it, but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
It also helps to start buildign a new "house" with solid foundations. The premise of equality is unattainable. ZSome semblance of it may be possible, but only when forced with massive state power.

I'd rather have freedom thanks.

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In the fullness of time...

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Emma

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Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell
Reply #202 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:08pm

Honkers, why make such negative declarations?.

The premise of equality is unattainable.

I fully understand that humans are mired in their own shxt, whoever they are...like you EG...
but thats not to say it should or will remain that way. It is about whether we have the Will to overcome our sordid sad and vicious past. As long as people smear other people because of their race, gender, creed.. or passivity/aggression... it will certainly be difficult... but not impossible, or unattainable. See I still hope humans may redeem themselves before they disappear.

Equality... in my book = fairness./ Not 'one size fits all'.

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live every day

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...

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Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell
Reply #203 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:19pm

Emma wrote on Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:08pm:

Honkers, why make such negative declarations?.

The premise of equality is unattainable.

I fully understand that humans are mired in their own shxt, whoever they are...like you EG...
but thats not to say it should or will remain that way. It is about whether we have the Will to overcome our sordid sad and vicious past. As long as people smear other people because of their race, gender, creed.. or passivity/aggression... it will certainly be difficult... but not impossible, or unattainable. See I still hope humans may redeem themselves before they disappear.

Equality... in my book = fairness./ Not 'one size fits all'.

Why? Because it IS unattainable.

There can never be true equality between any 2 people, let alone 7 billion and counting.

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In the fullness of time...

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #204 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:24pm Is there no end to your sooking, Honky?
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #205 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:33pm Life_goes_on wrote on Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:24pm: Is there no end to your sooking, Honky? Thats what people do here isn't it? How about you post a thread about how you dont give a bugger about anything? that'd be groovy man.
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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #206 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:35pm Just because others do, doesn't mean you have to join the herd.
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #207 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:41pm Life_goes_on wrote on Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:35pm: Just because others do, doesn't mean you have to join the herd. The very nature of this thread is against the herd.
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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #208 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:43pm It still doesn't remove anything from you being one of the whiniest on here.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: leftist ideology in a nutshell Reply #209 - Feb 12^th, 2012 at 9:44pm Definition of the "Political Class" and the Holier than thou Corporate class. Quote: "You stubborn people! You are heathen at heart and deaf to the truth. Must you forever resist the Holy Spirit? That's what your ancestors did, and so do you!" Hypocrites.
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