Australian Politics Forum - Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace'

Frances

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Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 10:53pm

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An impassioned Hillary Clinton accused post-revolution Egypt of failing its women as she denounced the stripping and beating of a female protester as "shocking" and a "disgrace."

In unusually strong language, the US secretary of state accused Egypt's new leaders of mistreating women both on the street and in politics since the revolt nearly a year ago that overthrew leader Hosni Mubarak.

"This systematic degradation of Egyptian women dishonors the revolution, disgraces the state and its uniform and is not worthy of a great people," Clinton said in a speech at Georgetown University.

In images widely seen over YouTube, helmeted troops were shown beating a veiled woman after having ripped her clothes off to reveal her bra and stomach.

Other pictures circulating on social media networks that have enraged protesters include one of a military policeman looming over a sobbing elderly woman with his truncheon.

"Recent events in Egypt have been particularly shocking. Women are being beaten and humiliated in the same streets where they risked their lives for the revolution only a few short months ago," Clinton said.

She denounced a "deeply troubling pattern" of military authorities and the major political parties alike keeping Egyptian women out of decision-making.

"At the same time, they have been specifically targeted both by security forces and extremists," the top US diplomat said.

"Women protesters have been rounded up and subjected to horrific abuse. Journalists have been sexually assaulted and now women are being attacked, stripped and beaten in the streets."

Responding later to a question by a student, Clinton said that Egyptians and not Americans should be the first ones disturbed by poor treatment of women.

"Beating women is not cultural, it's criminal and it needs to be addressed and treated as such," she said to applause.

Clinton, who narrowly lost her bid to be the first female US president, has frequently been outspoken about women's rights during her tenure as the country's top diplomat.

She addressed events in Egypt as part of a broader speech in which she argued that peacemaking efforts around the world would benefit from greater involvement by women.

President Barack Obama on Monday signed an executive order setting up a "National Action Plan on Women, Peace and Security," which Clinton said would advance women's role in peacemaking throughout US government agencies.

"Women are bellwethers of society and, in fact, sometimes they do play the role of canary in the coal mine. They know when communities are fraying and when citizens fear for their safety," Clinton said.

As part of the new effort, the United States will monitor violence and discrimination against women to help detect future conflicts, Clinton said.

The United States will also step up assistance to grassroots groups working to stop violence against women and increase their economic empowerment.

The first round of grants will cover support for a trauma center for rape survivors in Sudan, economic and legal assistance for women in Central African Republic and better collection of medical evidence to prosecute rampant rape in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

"Studies suggest that women's physical security and higher levels of gender equality correlate with security and peacefulness of entire countries," Clinton said.

"But political leaders too often overlook women's knowledge and experience until it's too late to stop violence from spiraling out of control," she said.

ANP/AFP

http://allafrica.com/stories/201112201450.html

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton Reply #1 - Feb 24^th, 2012 at 9:29am I can tell you that Hillary certianly doesnt help the women's cause in the world. She makes me sick to my stomach.
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falah

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #2 - Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:52pm

The people abusing women were the same secular scumbags that the US was happy to fund to the tune of 1 billion dollars per year for three decades.

Clinton is a hypocrite.

Reminds me of George Bush sending his wife out to talk about women's rights in Afghanistan while at the same time he was funding and arming warlords who were known rapists and human rights violators.

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Adamant Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1892 Brisbane	Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton Reply #3 - Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:09pm falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:52pm: Afghanistan while at the same time he was funding and arming warlords who were known rapists and human rights violators. Would these people be known as the taliban mujaheddin and haqqanis
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muso

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #4 - Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:20pm

I really fear for a friend of mine in Egypt. I've known her since 1996 and she has always been a bit of a jetsetter coming from a fairly affluent family. She's a Copt, and she's certainly not backward about supporting people who have been beaten up by the military, especially on her Facebook page. It's not a religious issue. Copts and Muslims joined together in the uprising. I hope that the presidential elections brings some stability to the country, but I'm not optimistic.

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Adamant

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #5 - Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:53pm

muso wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:20pm:

I really fear for a friend of mine in Egypt. I've known her since 1996 and she has always been a bit of a jetsetter coming from a fairly affluent family. She's a Copt, and she's certainly not backward about supporting people who have been beaten up by the military, especially on her Facebook page. It's not a religious issue. Copts and Muslims joined together in the uprising. I hope that the presidential elections brings some stability to the country, but I'm not optimistic.

Yes they all fought together to rid themselves from a dictator, but now he has been toppled the wahhabi's and salafist's hold sway they will not tolerate Coptic Christians tell your friend to leave Egypt whilst she is still allowed to. I wish her a safe journey.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton Reply #6 - Feb 25^th, 2012 at 11:11pm Perhaps we can send over all the feminist academics from the Humanities department to sort out the problem? Oh wait, they can only lambaste 'evil' power elites while being protecting by those very power elites. Better they stick to the protection granted in the West.
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falah

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #7 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:07pm

Adamant wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:09pm:

falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Afghanistan while at the same time he was funding and arming warlords who were known rapists and human rights violators.

Would these people be known as the taliban mujaheddin and haqqanis

No they are called Northern Alliance and "Afghanistan Government".

The Taliban came to power by rescuing kidnapped women. The Taliban are not funded by the USA war criminals.

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red baron

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #8 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 2:56pm

falah, dry up those crocodile tears you shed for the Taliban and read the following.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afghan women wearing the burqa
While in power in Afghanistan, the Taliban became notorious internationally for their treatment of women. Their stated aim was to create "secure environments where the chasteness and dignity of women may once again be sacrosanct,"[1] reportedly based on Pashtunwali beliefs about living in purdah.[2]
Women were forced to wear the burqa in public, because, according to a Taliban spokesman, "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them.[3] In a systematic segregation sometimes referred to as gender apartheid, women were not allowed to work, they were not allowed to be educated after the age of eight, and until then were permitted only to study the Qur'an. Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.[4][5] They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a male chaperone, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging and execution for violations of the Taliban's laws.[6][7] The Taliban allowed and in some cases encouraged marriage for girls under the age of 16. Amnesty International reported that 80 percent of Afghan marriages were considered to be by force.

Sounds to me falah like the Taliban were about as friendly as a dose of Arsenic to Muslim women.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #9 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 3:36pm

falah wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Adamant wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:09pm:

falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Afghanistan while at the same time he was funding and arming warlords who were known rapists and human rights violators.

Would these people be known as the taliban mujaheddin and haqqanis

No they are called Northern Alliance and "Afghanistan Government".

The Taliban came to power by rescuing kidnapped women. The Taliban are not funded by the USA war criminals.

Did they? Things went south pretty quickly then.

Surely you don't support the Taliban taking away the rights given to women by God in the Quran? The NA and the Taliban are both evil organisations - just for different reasons.

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falah

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #10 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 4:43pm

The Taliban stated that the reason for making face covering compulsory in urban areas was due to the high number of rapes and abductions of women during the civil war period.

Their intention was not to oppress women, but to protect them. If Afghanistan had not become such a dangerous place after the Soviet invasion, and US funding and arming of warlords, then the Taliban would not have felt in necessary to make such a rule.

There is a lot of propaganda about the Taliban treatment of women which is not simply not true.

An example is that the Taliban supposedly did not allow women to work. Not true actually. The Taliban themselves actually employed women to work as police, immigration officials, doctors, etc.

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2012 at 4:52pm by falah »

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #11 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:00pm

If some of the men in a society are out of control, they should be punished. Women should not be forced to lose their identity and become faceless because men can't control their sexual urges. There's nothing in the Quran to support the forcible use of hijab let alone niqab. What right have these men to force women to cover from head to toe? What right to deny their daughters an education - and worse, to deny other people's daughters that God-given right? Who were they to ban television and music and art and the innocent pleasure those things bring?

You are kidding yourself if you believe the Taliban treated women as anything more than dogs. Where does it say in the Quran that a woman may not venture from her house without a maharam? Or that religious police can beat a woman for doing so?

You do Muslims no favours by not condemning what the Taliban stood for in regards to women. They had better policies toward drugs and child abuse than the current corrupt pigs, but they certainly were not a better choice for women and for men who cared about women.

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falah

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #12 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:34pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

If some of the men in a society are out of control, they should be punished. Women should not be forced to lose their identity and become faceless because men can't control their sexual urges. There's nothing in the Quran to support the forcible use of hijab let alone niqab. What right have these men to force women to cover from head to toe?

It is the duty of a government to protect the civilian population. The Taliban felt that this would protect women during a period of insatbility and insecurity.

The Taliban were very harch towards rapists and came to power by answering calls for help from the families of female abducted by US-backed warlords.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

What right to deny their daughters an education - and worse, to deny other people's daughters that God-given right?

The Taliban did not deny girls education. They simply did not have any money to educate them. How could they educate girls when they could not even afford to educate all the boys (and remember this is a society where males are primarily the breadwinners)?

Quote:

10 May 1999

Pamela Constable, Washington Post

It is just after dawn, and a chorus of high-pitched murmurs rises as 200 girls huddle on the floor of a mosque, memorizing verses from the Koran. Stern-faced, bearded religious teachers carrying long sticks tower over the rows of bobbing head scarves.

On a small blackboard, a teacher chalks the numerals 1 through 10 in Persi then points to each. When he gets to 5, he stops and asks the girls to name the five pillars of Islam. Again, the chorus of voices rises in unison: "Kalima, zakat, haj... "

..."Other countries think Afghanistan has no teaching for our daughters, but we are doing our best," said Mahammad Anwar Hairja, a madrassa teacher. "When peace and calm come to the country, we hope these opportunities will continue further."...

...Here in the capital, there are indications that the Taliban is subtly easing some rigid restrictions that it has imposed on women since the group captured the city in 1996...

...in matters of public dress, authorities seem to be quietly ignoring behavior that once would have prompted harassment by the Islamic police...

...last week, dozens of women strode the streets of Kabul wearing veils that fell only to their waists in front, revealing tailored dresses, black stockings and high heels.

And in the health care field, officials are eager to demonstrate - contrary to reports in the West - that Afghan women have access to medical treatment, female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in hospitals and male doctors are allowed to operate on female patients.

"Whatever is being said in the West is based on false reports," said Abbas Stanikzai, the vice minister of health. "We have many clinics and hospitals with wards for women, and according to Islamic rules, a woman who suffers from a disease has full authority to contact a male doctor."...

...At the Malalai Hospital for Women, however, the reporter was allowed to speak freely to women in every ward. The doctors seemed dedicated – despite abysmal salaries of $2 per month – and the patients expressed trust in the largely female staff.

But the visit also revealed the glaring inadequacy of the country's penniless health system, except in the handful of urban hospitals subsidized by foreign agencies. Volunteer doctors from abroad said women in Kabul hospitals receive about the same level of care as men, but that fewer are admitted, and that malnutrition, cultural barriers and travel difficulties have made childbearing much riskier today...

...Taliban officials, in addition to including young girls in madrassa classes, said they had signed contracts with the United Nations to build four women's colleges. But they also insisted that until their armed opponents are quashed, conditions will not be "secure" enough for most older girls to attend school....

..."We want girls to have an education, but in a way that does not conflict with Islamic society," said Maulwi Ahmad Jan, the minister of mines, who arranged for a reporter to visit the madrassas. "What we are doing may not be up to world standards, but in the past only 2 percent of our women were in school at all."

In this war-weary capital,

several middle-class women said they were grateful to the Taliban for restoring peace after years of violence and anarchy

. Staying home and wearing a veil in public, they said, were small prices to pay.

"

Not long ago we had thousands of rockets a day hitting our neighborhood, and no girl was safe

," said Nadrah, 35..."As long as we have peace, other things like wearing the veil are not so important."

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/130.html

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

Who were they to ban television and music and art and the innocent pleasure those things bring?

Every country censors television. The Taliban were preocuppied by civil war and poverty and did not have the resources to censor television, so banned it in what would probably have been a temporary action.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #13 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:49pm

Falah, you should be ashamed of yourself. You go against your own God by defending that organisation against their Muslim women accusers - your sisters in Islam.

There aren't only two sides to that war. You don't automatically stand against Islam if you stand against and condemn the Muslims who commit these atrocities. You can stand with the victims against all oppressors.

Do read this list.

From RAWA (they'd know, right?) :

Quote:

Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the:

1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.

2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).

3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.

4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.

5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.)

6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.

7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.

8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.

9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).

10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).

11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.

12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).

13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)

14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.

15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.

16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.

17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.

18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."

19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.

20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.

21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".

22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.

23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.

24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.

25- Ban on female public baths.

26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").

27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.

28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.

29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has:

- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.

- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.

- Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.

- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.

- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.

- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.

- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.

- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.

- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.

- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.

- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.

- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.

- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.

- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.

- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".

- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews.

- Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

And so on...

Many of the anti-women rules that Taliban practiced were first of all the rules formulated and practiced by Rabbani-Massoud government after they came to power in 1992, but no one talk about them and it is painful that today even they are called the champaions of women's rights!!

http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

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falah

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Re: Egypt: Treatment of Women a 'Disgrace' - Clinton
Reply #14 - Feb 26^th, 2012 at 6:42pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

Falah, you should be ashamed of yourself. You go against your own God by defending that organisation against their Muslim women accusers - your sisters in Islam.

There aren't only two sides to that war. You don't automatically stand against Islam if you stand against and condemn the Muslims who commit these atrocities. You can stand with the victims against all oppressors.

Do read this list.

From RAWA (they'd know, right?) :

RAWA is a socialist atheist organistaion which invents a lot of anti-Taliban propaganda. The letter R stands for "revolutionary" and should be a big clue to the nature of the organisation.

The founder of the oranisation attended Socialist meetings:

Quote:

Meena represented the Afghan resistance movement at the French Socialist Party Congress.
http://www.rawa.org/meena.html

Anyway, you have to ask yourself which is worse Taliban ordering women to wear a burqa in urban areas or the US-backed Karzai government legalising rape.

‘Worse than the Taliban’ - new law rolls back rights for Afghan women

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/03/31/and-8216-worse-than-the-talibanand-8217-new-law-rolls-back-rights-for-afghan-women.html

Strange how we don't see George Bush's wife carted out to condemn the Karzai government treatment of women.

'Worse than the Taliban' - new law rolls back rights for Afghan women

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/31/hamid-karzai-afghanistan-law

Quote:

Child Rapist Police Return Behind U.S., UK Troops

The strategy of the major U.S. and British military offensive in Afghanistan's Helmand province aimed at wresting it from the Taliban is based on bringing back Afghan army and police to maintain permanent control of the population, so the foreign forces can move on to another insurgent stronghold.

But that strategy poses an acute problem: The police in the province, who are linked to the local warlord, have committed systematic abuses against the population, including the abduction and rape of pre-teen boys, according to village elders who met with British officers.

Anger over those police abuses runs so high that the elders in Babaji just north of Laskgar Gah warned the British that they would support the Taliban to get rid of them if the national police were allowed to return to the area, according to a Jul. 12 report by Reuters correspondent Peter Graff.

Associated Press reporters Jason Straziuso and David Guttenfelder, who accompanied U.S. troops in Northern Helmand, reported Jul. 13 that villagers in Aynak were equally angry about police depredations. Within hours of the arrival of U.S. troops in the village, they wrote, bands of villagers began complaining the local police force was "a bigger problem than the Taliban".

The brutality of the Afghan police toward the civilian population in Helmand was no surprise to Ambassador Ron Neumann, who was the U.S. envoy in Afghanistan from 2005 to 2007. Such abuses, including rape of pre-teen boys, "are part of the larger problem of repression and oppression" in Afghanistan, Neumann told IPS.

Neumann said the problem of police abuses against the population can be traced back to the creation of the national police after the overthrow of the Taliban regime in late 2001. The Afghan police were not created afresh by U.S. and NATO force, Neumann recalls but were "constituted from the forces that were then fighting the Taliban".

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=47871

Current Government Worse than Taliban": Report on Afghanistan

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2010/07/current-government-worse-taliban-report-afghanistan

Quote:

My organisation, the Open Society Foundations, recently asked 250 Afghans across Afghanistan who or what they thought was contributing to the escalation of conflict in Afghanistan, and, in particular, whom they blamed for the high civilian casualties and other civilian losses that have been such a flashpoint among the Afghan population.

...our analysis found that Afghans blamed international forces as much, if not more, than insurgents...the vast majority described international forces as equally brutal toward civilians, and equally, if not more responsible for civilian casualties, detention abuses and other concerns.

They said international forces were often indiscriminate, and that many civilian deaths could have been prevented through better targeting, intelligence or coordination. "When an accident happens, or there is an attack against Nato troops, then Nato troops react and start firing on people. They never think about those around them as human. They think every person on the street is their enemy," said a man from western Herat province.

Most alleged more horrific stories of international forces shooting people point blank in front of their families, of kidnapping women and returning their dead bodies, or of firing on or abusing children...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/12/afghanistan-nato

Quote:

In quotes: Excerpts from Nato report on Taliban

"In the last year there has been unprecedented interest, even from GIRoA [Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan] members, in joining the the insurgent cause.

Afghan civilians frequently prefer Taliban governance over GIRoA

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16829368

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