freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:26pm:


If God tells a life for a life, and some government says "life in jail for murder", then that government has challenged the right of God to legislate. That government presumes itself to in fact be greater than God.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 10:45pm:


So if you don't agree with it, then it must be absurd and malicious? In other words you refuse to accept your Creator, unless he conforms to your whims and desires. I'm sure you can see why we'd consider this a ridiculous position to take.

It is no accident that Islam only permits the taking of slaves through conquest, because conquest is a cornerstone of Islam.

Contrary to Abu's insistence that Islam helped reduce slavery, the practice was still common among Muslims long after they had been on the losing end of every battle they could remember. It was only foreign interference that finally ended the practice.

If God tells a life for a life, and some government says "life in jail for murder", then that government has challenged the right of God to legislate. That government presumes itself to in fact be greater than God.

So you would be challenging God if you tried to punish Muslims for raping slaves?

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:


Interesting. So Islam actually helped reverse the trend towards eradicating slavery in the middle east?

Freeing the slaves :

One of the most important merits that the Islamic history unfolds about Abu –Bakr is that he was lavished much of his interest on freeing the slaves . He liberated one of the most important personalities in the Islamic community – It is Bilal , that no one in the Islamic world doesn't know . He was the slave of Omayya bin Khalaf. Omayya was a heartless man. He would strip Bilal of all clothes, make him lie on the burning sand of the desert  at mid-day and then lash him mercilessly. Despite this torture Bilal would go on saying, "Allah is one! Allah is one!" – A litany that he used to utter when being tortured , Nothing would dissuade him from his will , He became a Moslem , no one could know the merits of Islam as a slave like  Bilal did  , To him life could be sacrificed for the sake of Islam . Body can be tortured , blood can be shed and even life can be lost , why not after finding his lost entity , as did  many of the other slaves , the story of his life would have  gone  without being mourned , only Islam that gave the last chapter of his life a meaning . One day Abu Bakr happened to pass by him when he was thrown on the sand partially naked . He was greatly moved by the sight of Bilal being thrown on the hot sand of the desert and handcuffed with heavy chains , yet his soul was free , no matter the lashes that were slicing his flesh , what a litany he used to say! - conscious or unconscious he used to say it . The future has treasured a great reward for this slave , one might ask himself what gains looming in the horizons for those slaves , they knew that nothing was awaiting but torture and perhaps death. Being touched by the sight , Abu-Baker said   "Why are you so cruel to this helpless man?" "If you feel for him, why don't you buy him?" Answered Omayya. So Abu Bakr at once bought Bilal at a heavy price and set him free. The cruel man said " If you pay less than what you paid , I would give him to you " Such a derogatory  sentence was backfired as Abu-Bakr  answered saying " And if you asked more than I gave to you , I wouldn't hesitate to pay ."Bilal afterwards became the well-known "Mu'azzin" [ one who gives the call for prayer ] at the Prophet's Mosque.
http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=363:abu-baker-1&catid=57:islamic-personalities&Itemid=111

That is rubbish, slavery was rampant in the Middle East before the time of Prophet Muhammed,( may God's peace & blessing be upon him).

It was common for pagan Arabs to rape the womenfolk of the losing side on the battlefield. This practice was abolished by Islam.

Do you think that Prophet Abraham did wrong when the Bible tells us he fathered a child with his concubine? Do you think that he "raped" his concubine?

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:


That is rubbish, slavery was rampant in the Middle East before the time of Prophet Muhammed,( may God's peace & blessing be upon him).

People were commonly kidnapped and made into slaves across the Middle East.

Islam actually regulated this, and prohibited slavery resulting from kidnappings, as well as poverty-induced and indebted slavery that had existed before.

Many of Prophet Muhammed's companions were former slaves of pagan Arabs (including a former Christian who had been kidnapped by the pagans).

Before Islam, it was customary for warring nations to make the conquered people slaves. It has been recorded that the Romans took British slaves back to Rome in cages after the conquest by Julius Caesar.

It was common for pagan Arabs to rape the womenfolk of the losing side on the battlefield. This practice was abolished by Islam.

Even though God Almighty permitted the Muslims to take captives from war, Prophet Muhammed and later rulers of the Islamic state would often spare the vanquished from slavery. The Muslims also made treaties with those Christians who did not fight the Muslims and these treaties were respected, and great Christian cities like Damascus and Jerusalem joined the Islamic state in this manner.

The Muslims spent much of their money freeing slaves.

A companion of prophet Muhammed, Abu Bakr paid for many slaves to be freed......

To a smaller degree, Arabs also enslaved Europeans. According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary corsairs, who were vassals of the Ottoman Empire, and sold as slaves between the 16th and 19th centuries.[11][12] These slaves were captured mainly from seaside villages from Italy, Spain, Portugal and also from more distant places like France or England, the Netherlands, Ireland and even Iceland. The impact of these attacks was devastating – France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships, and long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants. Pirate raids discouraged settlement along the coast until the 19th century.

Yadda are you stupid? The term "pirate", do you understand what it means?

It mean a criminal who works outside of government or legitimate norms.

Pirates are just criminals