Australian Politics Forum - The Israel Lobby

Soren

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #195 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:26am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 10:41am:

This is the conundrum, that the last sovereign power that 'owned these occupied territories(Ottoman Turkey) does not exist. And so 'facts on the ground' become the only basis of sorting out the disputes.

'Facts on the ground' that did not work in the Kurds' favour... If any state had a "right to exist", it would be Kurdistan.

Israel exists because it has the wherewithal to defend its borders (where Israelis choose to draw them) against all its enemies. In the future, when the occupied territories (as many Orthodox insist) are declared part of greater Israel (as I am sure they will be), Israeli statesmen and women will have the job of selling that to its neighbours... Whether they like it or not will be irrelevant to the existence of "Greater Israel" so long as its citizenry have the wherewithal and the will to successfully defend its borders.

Kurdistan (and Tibet) would have to be carved out of existing sovereign states (as was East Timor).
Israel didn't have this difficulty. That's why it exists and Kurdistan and Tibet don't.
East Timor exists because it has paid in blood for its right to exists (as did the Jews, come to think of it) and Austrlia felt obliged to repay that debt by helping them.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #196 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:27am Bobby. wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:20am: Hi Soren, You're not Jewish by any chance are you? Only at heart, not in the trouser department.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #197 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:45am

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

Kurdistan (and Tibet) would have to be carved out of existing sovereign states (as was East Timor).
Israel didn't have this difficulty. That's why it exists and Kurdistan and Tibet don't.
East Timor exists because it has paid in blood for its right to exists (as did the Jews, come to think of it) and Austrlia felt obliged to repay that debt by helping them.

Israel exists because it has defended and can defend itself against its enemies. Prior to the 6 day war, its only real supporter was France. Had Israel lost its wars with Arab states, it is unlikely that it would exist at all today, UN resolutions or not.

The Kurds did not have the wherewithal (militarily, politically or psychologically) to establish a state of Kurdistan (although they're using an accident of history to try to establish an independent Kurdistan now).

As for East Timor... It exists at the pleasure of Indonesia.

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Soren

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #198 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

Kurdistan (and Tibet) would have to be carved out of existing sovereign states (as was East Timor).
Israel didn't have this difficulty. That's why it exists and Kurdistan and Tibet don't.
East Timor exists because it has paid in blood for its right to exists (as did the Jews, come to think of it) and Austrlia felt obliged to repay that debt by helping them.

Israel exists because it has defended and can defend itself against its enemies. Prior to the 6 day war, its only real supporter was France. Had Israel lost its wars with Arab states, it is unlikely that it would exist at all today, UN resolutions or not.

The Kurds did not have the wherewithal (militarily, politically or psychologically) to establish a state of Kurdistan (although they're using an accident of history to try to establish an independent Kurdistan now).

As for East Timor... It exists at the pleasure of Indonesia.

So the Arabs had a go in 1948, lost - they should have signed up to the partition plan then.
Now it is almost entirely up to Israel to give them or not give them a country. By the constant shelling of a country they cannot possibly defeat by force, the Arabs are reinforcing the Jewish determination to give them FA - and to keep a strong military force on alert.

What exactly is a Kurd, other than a tribe of persians? How do they differ from any of the other -istans or Persians? Their language is a persian dialect, they have lived in Persia (as its borders have shifted).
They are kinda Welsh, no? Same but different.

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falah

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #199 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 12:20pm

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

Kurdistan (and Tibet) would have to be carved out of existing sovereign states (as was East Timor).
Israel didn't have this difficulty. That's why it exists and Kurdistan and Tibet don't.
East Timor exists because it has paid in blood for its right to exists (as did the Jews, come to think of it) and Austrlia felt obliged to repay that debt by helping them.

Israel exists because it has defended and can defend itself against its enemies. Prior to the 6 day war, its only real supporter was France. Had Israel lost its wars with Arab states, it is unlikely that it would exist at all today, UN resolutions or not.

The Kurds did not have the wherewithal (militarily, politically or psychologically) to establish a state of Kurdistan (although they're using an accident of history to try to establish an independent Kurdistan now).

As for East Timor... It exists at the pleasure of Indonesia.

the Arabs are reinforcing the Jewish determination to give them FA

The Zionists had planned this all along by rejecting every peace plan:

Israel Rejects Saudi Peace Plan (1981)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19810810&id=FgQtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6fMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=994,2692070

Rabin assassinated at peace rally (by Zionist Jew 1995

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/rabin/

Palestinians fear backlash as Israel rejects Saudi peace plan

http://www.scotsman.com/news/international/palestinians-fear-backlash-as-israel-...

Revived Saudi Peace Plan Rejected (2008)

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/467486.aspx

Israel rejects United States peace plan

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/109577-israel-rejects-united-states-p...

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #200 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 12:59pm UN Partition Plan For Palestine 1947 - The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan, without reservation. The Arabs didn't The Jews rejected subsequent Arab plans as each came with an unconditional right of return of all Arabs and their descendants.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105384 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #201 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:14pm Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:27am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:20am: Hi Soren, You're not Jewish by any chance are you? Only at heart, not in the trouser department. I wasn't asking about your trouser snake.
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Yadda

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #202 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:24pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

Israelis we believe that it is our home land and we live in peace as neighbour.
Is so like you peoples when you come out of Sydney and Melbourne,,
I am same for tel aviv,,

So if some body attack aus you too fight back like we,,

You see we gives to them land then what has happened, they has use the landto fire rocket grads in to Israel ,,

What this do is to show to moderate Israeli like me is not so good idea and support strong politicians,

Exactly so, Avram.

Make concessions to moslems = = Jewish blood and Jewish deaths [the murder of Jewish people by moslems].

All moslems are [actual or potential, wishing to be] homicidal maniacs.

And all moslems see their violence against the Jewish people as being justified by, and made 'lawful' by their DEATH CULT, ISLAM.

According to ISLAM itself, a 'good' moslem, is defined as a person who chooses to embrace the tenets and laws of ISLAM.

ISALM teaches moslems, that it is 'lawful' to murder those who do not believe as you believe.

A moslem, is a person who chooses, to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM], which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

+++

The death cult, ISLAM, 'religiously' sanctions a NEVER ENDING warfare, by ALL moslems, against those non-moslems who reject ISLAM's authority over their lives....

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #203 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:41pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 10:27am:

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

UN Partition Plan For Palestine 1947

The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan, without reservation.

And so if the Arabs hadn't attacked repeatedly but had accepted the paln s the jews did, this is how the map would look like today.
Israel and the Arabs would have had 65 years of peace, cooperation and prosperity.

So Israel only has a "right to exist" within the original borders and (presumably) has no "right to exist" outside those borders?

Nice try, Oh convicted one.

islam and jews

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299665041/39#39
Quote:

......international law allows nations who are attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948], to occupy and annex land that was previously recognised as being a part of another state [e.g. Arab states, 1948] because of aggression and attacks, upon a neighbouring state [Israel, 1948].

And international laws does not prohibit a state which was attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948], from occupying and annexing the lands of an aggressor, so as to prevent further attacks.

......"ISRAEL AND INTERNATIONAL LAW....Israel’s presence in all these areas pending negotiation of new borders is entirely lawful, since Israel entered them lawfully in self-defence. International law forbids acquisition by unlawful force, but not where, as in the case of Israel’s self-defence in 1967, the entry on the territory was lawful. It does not so forbid it,....for the effect of such prohibition would be to guarantee to all potential aggressors that, even if their aggression failed, all territory lost in the attempt would be automatically returned to them. Such a rule would be absurd to the point of lunacy. There is no such rule..."
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1528

Rightly so, imo.

Moslem aggressors should lose the lands they used, to facilitate their attacks upon Israel.

".....And all the people shall say, Amen."

Deuteronomy

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105384 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #204 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:45pm Yadda - your posts are too long. I can't be bothered reading all that nonsense. Just make one small point - make it punchy.
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Yadda

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #205 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:48pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Soren wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

Kurdistan (and Tibet) would have to be carved out of existing sovereign states (as was East Timor).
Israel didn't have this difficulty. That's why it exists and Kurdistan and Tibet don't.
East Timor exists because it has paid in blood for its right to exists (as did the Jews, come to think of it) and Austrlia felt obliged to repay that debt by helping them.

Israel exists because it has defended and can defend itself against its enemies. Prior to the 6 day war, its only real supporter was France. Had Israel lost its wars with Arab states, it is unlikely that it would exist at all today, UN resolutions or not.

The Kurds did not have the wherewithal (militarily, politically or psychologically) to establish a state of Kurdistan (although they're using an accident of history to try to establish an independent Kurdistan now).

As for East Timor... It exists at the pleasure of Indonesia.

CORRECTION;

"Had Israel lost its wars just ONE of its wars with Arab states, it is unlikely that it would exist at all today, UN resolutions or not."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21786 A cat with a view	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #206 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:50pm Bobby. wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:45pm: Yadda - your posts are too long. I can't be bothered reading all that nonsense. Just make one small point - make it punchy. Simple. Do not read my posts, bobby.
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105384 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #207 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:52pm Yadda wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:50pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:45pm: Yadda - your posts are too long. I can't be bothered reading all that nonsense. Just make one small point - make it punchy. Simple. Do not read my posts, bobby. Go to hell - who cares about what is written in the Koran?
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it_is_the_light Gold Member Offline Christ Light Posts: 41434 The Pyramid of LIGHT Gender:	Re: The Israel Lobby Reply #208 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:55pm Go to hell - who cares about what is written in the Koran? _________ to direct another how to act is a manifestation of ones confusion i do observe with forgiveness namaste
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Yadda

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Re: The Israel Lobby
Reply #209 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 1:56pm

falah wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 12:20pm:

Israel Rejects Saudi Peace Plan (1981)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19810810&id=FgQtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6fMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=994,2692070

Rabin assassinated at peace rally (by Zionist Jew 1995

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/rabin/

Palestinians fear backlash as Israel rejects Saudi peace plan

http://www.scotsman.com/news/international/palestinians-fear-backlash-as-israel-...

Revived Saudi Peace Plan Rejected (2008)

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/467486.aspx

Israel rejects United States peace plan

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/109577-israel-rejects-united-states-p...

Yadda paraphrases falah's moslem 'peace' HEADLINES;

Israel rejects its planned obliteration by those charming, 'peace-loving' moslems [and their friends].

+++

Psalms 4:2
O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.

leasing = = deceit

Psalms 28:3
Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
4 Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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