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Question: Does Israel have nuclear weapons?

Yes    
  20 (83.3%)
No    
  1 (4.2%)
unsure    
  3 (12.5%)




Total votes: 24
« Created by: Bobby. on: Mar 9th, 2012 at 11:38am »

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"Israel & US are one!" (Read 47013 times)
Jan
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #270 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:18pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:37am:
falah wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:21am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 9:55am:
Bobby the fact Israel was attacked on any number of occasions (including one of their holiest times in the calendar) should probably give you an idea why they are reluctant to rely on anyone other than themselves.


What? Arabs attacked Israel? After Israelis went to all the bother of invading and  occupying Arab lands, and murdering and expelling Arab civilians.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PaG-oRPFduY/TiweYiztuXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/1NAXPONTmdc/s1600/...

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

Selling weapons to apartheid South Africa is all kosher then?
So how many nuclear weapons did Israel sell? what none,zip zilch?


So why does you map have Gaza as Palestinian land when Egypt had control of it?

Why does your map have the west bank as Palestinian land when Jordan had control of it?

Israel occupied Gaza then gave it back, no mention of that with you propaganda map.

Falah if you want to use maps for propaganda at least make them accurate or people might think you are full of bullshit.


That's easy to rectify just colour the West bank and Gaza red it won't mean sh!t to the outcome or the statistics, it'll just point out more Palestinian blood (that's Muslim,Christian and others) spilled for Israeli dominance.




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The Victors write the History But echoes of truth remain. Those who muffle echoes fear the truth
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #271 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:36pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 9:55am:
Bobby the fact Israel was attacked on any number of occasions (including one of their holiest times in the calendar) should probably give you an idea why they are reluctant to rely on anyone other than themselves.

Plus Israel has broken no law on nuclear proliferation.
You need a lesson in what constitutes "Themselves" or going it alone ...

State Sponsored "Pre-emptive Murder": US and Israeli Targeted Killings

By Stephen Lendman

URL of this article: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29761

International law permits justifiable self-defense. Targeted killings are prohibited, especially premeditated ones like America and Israel repeatedly commit for reasons other than claimed.

These incidents constitute cold-blooded murder. US drone killings and rampaging death squads, as well as Israel's deplorable history and latest ritual slaughter highlight the issue. International law prohibits anticipatory self-defense. It amounts to using force to deter it.
Under the UN Charter's Article 2(4):
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."

Only two exceptions apply. Article 51 permits "individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security."

In addition, a nation may anticipate self-defense in situations where verifiable, compelling evidence shows imminent or already initiated armed attacks.

For example, if nations face hostile mobilized troops on their borders, self-defense is justified if invasion seems likely. Or if specific provable knowledge of impending terrorist attacks are known, preventive defensive action is warranted.

However, anticipatory self-defense based on unproved allegations is lawless. For example, attacking Iraq for allegedly possessing WMDs had no basis in international law. Moreover, possession of any weapons proves no intent to use them. In the case of Iraq, of course, allegations were entirely spurious.

Key is that employing anticipatory (or preemptive) self-defense against nations, groups, or individuals based on alleged threats is prohibited and lawless if undertaken.

No matter. For America and Israel, it's official policy. Alleged national security reasons are cited. Nearly always they're spurious.

In response to Israel's 1981 Iraq Osirik nuclear reactor attack (under construction at the time), the Security Council ruled "the military attack by Israel in clear violation of the Charter of the United Nations and the norms of international conduct."

If Israel and/or America attack Iran's nuclear facilities, the same standard applies. Of course, US veto power will prevent saying or deterring it unlike decades earlier. Back then, the IAEA head and Israel had no evidence of unlawful weapons development, possession, or imminent use. Anticipatory self-defense was lawless.

Unverifiable "inherent right" claims are spurious. Nonetheless, America and Israel invoke them often. In his 2002 West Point Commencement speech, George Bush said:

“(N)ot only will the United States impose preemptive, unilateral military force when and where it chooses, but the nation will also punish those who engage in terror and aggression and will work to impose a universal moral clarity between good and evil.”

In other words, he unilaterally claimed whatever America says, goes. No restraints apply. At the time, moreover, he suggested Washington has choices unavailable to other nations. Rule of law provisions apply to them. Washington makes its own.

In fact, America lawlessly waged multiple post-WW II wars. All were illegal aggression. None were justified for any reason. It's equally true for Israel. Today, both nations represent clear and present dangers. Operating extrajudicially, they endanger humanity.

In 2010, Philip Alston, UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary, or arbitrary executions presented a report on the topic. It called using them "highly problematic, blurring and expand(ing) the boundaries" of recognized international law.

Asserting a "vaguely defined license to kill" subverts it. Alston called targeted killings "intentional, premeditated and deliberate use of lethal force...." Legal frameworks are blurred. Laws of war and human rights are discarded. Moreover, states employing this practice don't show justification other than claiming vague threats.

Most often, they violate the right to life. Throughout its history, Israel employed the tactic. In fact, it began during the Mandatory Palestine period when Jewish terrorist groups targeted Jews, Brits and Arabs. Future prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were involved.

For example, in November 1944, Lehi (Stern Gang) terrorists assassinated Lord Moyne, Britain's Middle East minister of state, near his home in Cairo.

In September 1948, it also killed UN mediator Folke Bernadotte in Jerusalem, five months after Israel was established. Yitzhak Shamir personally approved the assassination.

In July 1946, Irgun terrorists bombed the King David Hotel, massacring 92 Brits, Arabs and Jews, wounding 58 others. Future prime minister David Ben-Gurion approved it as head of the Jewish Agency at the time.

Before and after May 1948, many thousands of targeted killings occurred or were attempted. Using them is official Israeli policy. Mossad assassins murdered Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

On February 14, 2005, compelling visual and audio evidence revealed real time intercepted Israel aerial surveillance footage of routes he used on the day his motorcade was attacked. Israel was involved.

At first, Syria was spuriously blamed, then Hezbollah. Fingers were bogusly pointed the wrong way to absolve Israel. It was typical Mossad, whether by car bombs, shootings, poisoning, slit throats, or other means. Targets get no reprieves.

Assassinations, including US citizens, didn't begin under Bush and Obama. CIA operatives used them for decades. In his book "Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic," Chalmers Johnson said:

"(W)e will never again know peace, nor in all probability survive very long as a nation, unless we abolish the CIA, restore intelligence collecting to the State Department, and remove all but purely military functions from the Pentagon."

The Agency acts as judge, jury, and executioner. Imperial Rome had its praetorian guard. The CIA works the same way as a private unaccountable army. It operates extrajudicially against targets ranging from alleged terrorists to heads of state.

Among its original missions, one vaguely permitted "other functions and duties related to intelligence affecting the national security as the National Security Council may....direct."

As a result, it became a covert, unaccountable force unto itself. It's engaged in mischievous, illegal operations. They include overthrowing democratically elected governments, assassinating foreign heads of state and key officials, propping up friendly dictators, and extraordinarily renditioning targeted subjects to torture prison hell, or simply disappearing them.

Accountable unto itself, it does what it pleases outside the law. Its bag of dirty tricks defines imperial America. In the process, the republic's life was shortened. Johnson said "the company" menaces democracy. Neither can coexist with the other.

Along with US Special Forces, it's involved in death squad killings. It also operates predator drones in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and wherever Washington designates targets to kill.

Allegedly targeting militants and terrorists, independent experts believe noncombatant civilians are killed 98% of the time. Official reports suppress dirty truths.

US citizens are also targeted. Attorney General Eric Holder said:

“The president may use force abroad against a senior operational leader of a foreign terrorist organization with which the United States is at war — even if that individual happens to be a U.S. citizen.”

In fact, senior administration officials said Obama and future presidents (on their own authority) may order them killed anywhere, including at home. Holder noticeably added that America's "authority is not limited to the battlefields in Afghanistan" or anywhere else.

They're where presidents say they are. Anyone anywhere may be killed for any reason or none at all. They can also be arrested, thrown in military dungeons uncharged, denied due process, sent abroad to torture prisons, or simply disappeared.

Constitutional protections no longer apply. Unilateral executive authority replaced them. Planet earth is America's battlefield. Since last year, drone attacks killed at least three US citizens abroad.
The FAA Reauthorization Act authorizes up to 30,000 unmanned homeland aerial vehicles (UAVs) by 2020. They'll be used for spying and who knows what else. Not only will privacy rights be compromised, so will life and liberty protections. This army in the sky will be used repressively against everyone.
A Final Comment
Ron Paul's the only presidential candidate openly expressing alarm about Obama's assassination policy. On February 24, 2010, he said:
"What have we allowed ourselves to become? Are we no longer a nation of laws? Have we become instead a nation of men who make secret arrests? Are secret prisons now simply another tool of the federal government law enforcement?"
"Is secret rendition of individuals now permitted, out of misplaced fear? Have we decided that the writ of habeas corpus is not worth defending? Is torture now an acceptable tool for making us safe? Unfortunately, the ......
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The Victors write the History But echoes of truth remain. Those who muffle echoes fear the truth
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #272 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:55pm
 
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:06pm:
... wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:16am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:01am:
Israel and America need each other, two evil forces are better than one.



If they're evil , who are the good guys?


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


So what about the Nazi's they hated the jews are they your friends as well?

Hitler did have a Bosnian muslim regiment, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helped out with that.

Strange friends you keep Jan  Grin
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #273 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 3:46pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:55pm:
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:06pm:
... wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:16am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:01am:
Israel and America need each other, two evil forces are better than one.



If they're evil , who are the good guys?


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


So what about the Nazi's they hated the jews are they your friends as well?

Hitler did have a Bosnian muslim regiment, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helped out with that.

Strange friends you keep Jan  Grin


Anyone against Israel and the US (our worst enemies) are my friends.

Study BOTH sides of war and economy to get a balanced view of political Allies and foes.



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The Victors write the History But echoes of truth remain. Those who muffle echoes fear the truth
 
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falah
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #274 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 3:51pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:55pm:
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:06pm:
... wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:16am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:01am:
Israel and America need each other, two evil forces are better than one.



If they're evil , who are the good guys?


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


So what about the Nazi's they hated the jews are they your friends as well?

Hitler did have a Bosnian muslim regiment, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helped out with that.

Strange friends you keep Jan  Grin



Allies of Germany in WWII:

Italy
Japan
France (Vichy Government)
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
Yugoslavia
Thailand
Finland
San Marino
Philippines (Second Republic)
Vietnam (Empire of Vietnam)
India (Provisional Government of Free India including Ghandi)
Cambodia
Laos
Burma (Ba Maw regime)
Montenegro
Slovakia (Tiso regime)
Serbia
Macedonia
Independent State of Croatia
Denmark
Norway
Spain

Should we consider every person from these countries as Hitler's buddies forever more?
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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #275 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:28pm
 
Indonesia 'cleanses' the Papuans from Irian Jaya and pumps Indonesians into there via settlements to 'blood' out the natives.
What Indonesia doesn't want to know about is all the 'Full Metal Jacket' Papuans moving westward from the old Bouganville War days - to the border to soon help their 'bow and arrow' brothers.

My money is on the Papuans (and their Allies Wink) to really show the Indonesians what 'jungle fighting' is all about once all the other wars kick off after this looming Economic crises.
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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #276 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 10:13pm
 
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
Anyone against Israel and the US (our worst enemies) are my friends.

Study BOTH sides of war and economy to get a balanced view of political Allies and foes.





Grin
A balanced view like yours???

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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #277 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 10:39pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 1:24pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:46pm:
It's not propaganda - it's true.
Martin van Creveld said it.


So is he a politician or a historian and writer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_van_Creveld



He is an Israeli military historian and theorist.
Thanks for that link it led me to his latest statement.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/online-commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-ira...

Martin van Creveld, Jason Pack.
Quote:
Now is not the time to provoke Iran, but rather to tend to Syria’s troubles before it is too late – for example, by publicly offering Assad a way out of the country that will safeguard the minority Alawite community if he is toppled or forced to flee. If the Syria situation is ignored, its spillover may inadvertently provoke Israeli or Iranian action, inciting a regional war and a global depression.

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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #278 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 1:37am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Quote:
But the Jews are not going to sign up to that.


What?
This -

Quote:
Israel has to come clean & every other
country has to sign on too - with proper inspections
to ensure that the Middle East stops being a powder keg
with everyone armed to the teeth.


If no one has a big army or nuclear weapons then no one has
the capacity to destroy the other.

The Middle East must be de weaponised.





bobby,

Will you tell the moslem nations surrounding Israel to disarm [and to learn to sing 'Kumbaya My Lord'], or should i ?
/sarc off

Israel is so heavily armed, because it has constantly been attacked, by its moslem neighbors.






The history of mankind, is a history of warfare.

No peace......not while men [mis]manage this planet.

It is not in our nature, to be peaceful and altruistic.

It is our nature, to be vain, proud, greedy, selfish, lustful, violent.

Those human characteristics, are what engaging with this world encourages, and brings out in us.






If you are a person who desires peace, aspires to peace,  .....if you are a person who loves peace, then seek your God.

Something which is a difficult task for us, when we are all, enamored and distracted, by [the 'cares' of] this world.


Dictionary;
aspire = = direct one’s hopes or ambitions towards achieving something.




+++


James 4:4
.....know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5  Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #279 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 1:59am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 12:08am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 11:23pm:
Israel must always keep big army and military weapons because of surround by countrys who try to destroy,,

See syria who fire to their peoples,, they think easy to fire to Jewish peoples

Bobbythebat see that Israel has been given to children of Israel by God,, it is written in Torah and Hebrew bibles of this,



I don't care what the Torah says.


The Middle East must be disarmed on all sides.
There is no other way to stop them killing each other.





Luke 11:21
When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:


bobby,

Your suggestion, is naive, and totally irrational, imo.



Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding is foolish, and unnecessary.

Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding, will only expose them to being the victims, of those who remain armed, and who wish to prey upon, and murder them.





+++


It is moslems who are the antagonists.

It is moslems , who wish to murder those not within their power [not under their ISLAMIC authority].

ISLAMISTS cause wars.

Quote:

"......he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him;"

John Locke 1632-170



John Locke 1632-1704
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242692863/0#0



+++

bobby,

Take off your blinkers......


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29



"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #280 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 2:25am
 
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:06pm:
... wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:16am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:01am:
Israel and America need each other, two evil forces are better than one.



If they're evil , who are the good guys?


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.





Therefore, Jan is the friend of all ISLAMISTS.         Shocked         Shocked         Shocked


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #281 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 3:27am
 
Yadda,
Quote:
Your suggestion, is naive, and totally irrational, imo.

Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding is foolish, and unnecessary.

Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding, will only expose them to being the victims, of those who remain armed, and who wish to prey upon, and murder them.



You disarm in small steps building trust along the way
until no side has the capacity to destroy the other.
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #282 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 4:13am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 18th, 2012 at 3:27am:
Yadda,
Quote:
Your suggestion, is naive, and totally irrational, imo.

Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding is foolish, and unnecessary.

Disarming those who are peaceful and law abiding, will only expose them to being the victims, of those who remain armed, and who wish to prey upon, and murder them.



You disarm in small steps building trust along the way
until no side has the capacity to destroy the other.




bobby,

What you are suggesting is, that impotence, brings peace.

You are mistaken..




Truth brings peace, through justice, and the judgement, of wicked people.

When wicked people [criminals] are judged and removed from a society, that society, will enjoy peace.

REAL peace.




bobby,

What many socialists, social engineers, and criminals, like yourself, are promoting, will simply result in making victims of peaceable people, by their dis-empowerment.

Impotence [powerlessness] does not produce [or guarantee] peace.

Impotence [powerlessness] is the cause of the enslavement, of the powerless [enslavement, by those with an ability to wield power].





+++

IMO, everybody in Australia who is;
1/ over 25 years of age,
2/ has not had a criminal conviction in the last 20 years,
3/ and has never been convicted of illicit drug abuse, AND, has never been convicted of drink driving,

.....should be allowed to own a firearm [if they want to own one] to defend their home and family.




If we want a peaceful society, we need to make the criminals frightened, ......of the peaceable and law abiding citizens.

AND, remove criminals from society, permanently.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #283 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 4:29am
 
Yadda wrote on Mar 18th, 2012 at 4:13am:
bobby,

What many socialists, social engineers, and criminals, like yourself, are promoting, will simply result in making victims of peaceable people, by their dis-empowerment.

Impotence [powerlessness] does not produce [or guarantee] peace.

Impotence [powerlessness] is the cause of the enslavement, of the powerless [enslavement, by those with an ability to wield power].





e.g.
The strong man who is a rapist, rapes a powerless and weaker woman, BECAUSE HE WANTS TO, AND BECAUSE HE CAN.

Force can be used for good.

Force can be used to protect the innocent, and the weak.




We should be seeking to dis-empower the wicked [criminals], AND, to separate ourselves from criminals, by removing persistent criminals from society.

But dis-empowering 'everyone', including the innocent, and the weak, will only help those wicked and criminals [who retain some concealed strength and power], to enslave, and oppress the innocent, and the weak.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: "Israel & US are one!"
Reply #284 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 5:17am
 
Soren wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 10:13pm:
Jan wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
Anyone against Israel and the US (our worst enemies) are my friends.

Study BOTH sides of war and economy to get a balanced view of political Allies and foes.


Grin
A balanced view like yours???


My views are better than your views.

Yours are stacked so high on the side of zionism they block out the light.
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The Victors write the History But echoes of truth remain. Those who muffle echoes fear the truth
 
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