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How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again (Read 5019 times)
john_g
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #30 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:24pm
 
MOTR wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:16pm:
How are you being penalised, John?

You were  happy to have your prices subsidised by future generations and now you're whinging cause you have to pay your right whack. Typical Liberal, happy to be subsidised.


Firstly, what do you even mean? I work in business, and am not payed, nor have I been payed by the government. Secondly, I am a centrist swinging voter. Thirdly, why did you not respond to the rest of my post?
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MOTR
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #31 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:40pm
 
Read the science John. Our emissions of carbon dioxide will reduce the productivity of our planet in the future. You're consuming resources at a price well below their true value. It's called intergenerational subsidisation. As a businessman you should know the best way to solve problems like this is through the price mechanism. Instead you want our taxes to subsidise your shift to a less carbon intensive business structure. Tell me what business you're in and I'll tell you where else you're being subsidised.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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corporate_whitey
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #32 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:44pm
 
Read the Propaganda - its all bullsh!t socialist ideology with no scientific basis.  Never before has such a con ever been imposed against the will of the people - it even eclipses the GST.  This is a tax on age and the elderly and a tax to eliminate the working class from the economy - its that simple and cruel.  And it is a lie. Cool
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World Wide Working Class Struggle
 
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Uncle Meat
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #33 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 11:58pm
 
corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:44pm:
... - it even eclipses the GST. ...


Would you rather go back to paying sales tax?


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corporate_whitey
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #34 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 1:42am
 
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 11:58pm:
corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:44pm:
... - it even eclipses the GST. ...


Would you rather go back to paying sales tax?



Nope, I oppose Sales Tax.  If you going to tax, it must be a steeply graduated progressive personal income tax or nothing. Cool
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World Wide Working Class Struggle
 
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longweekend58
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #35 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:20am
 
MOTR wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 8:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 7:02pm:
MOTR wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 6:50am:
All minority governments are forced to compromise. An interim carbon tax is more consistent with Labor policy than doing nothing. Business as usual would have been a worse breach of faith.



and the notion of breaking your election promises ISNT a breach of faith?


We were promised an ETS, that was Labor Party policy. An interim carbon levy that morphs into an ETS is a good outcome. If Julia delivered business as usual she would not have a skerrick of moral credibility to clothe herself. Ironically, the morally bankrupt have turned this into her greatest sin.


its really quite simple. she promised there woudl be no carbon tax and immediately introduced a carbon tax. there is no wriggling out of that one. it is an iron-clab breach of promise.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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MOTR
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #36 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:38am
 
If Gillard had the numbers in parliament we would not have a carbon tax. She doesn't have the numbers so we have a compromise. What she wasn't prepared to do was put off the inevitable for a more politically convenient time. She has my respect.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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adelcrow
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #37 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 8:54am
 
MOTR wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:38am:
If Gillard had the numbers in parliament we would not have a carbon tax. She doesn't have the numbers so we have a compromise. What she wasn't prepared to do was put off the inevitable for a more politically convenient time. She has my respect.



Even Tony Abbott said a carbon tax was the best way to deal with the issue so by his evaluation Julia is going down the right road.
Or was Tony lying when he praised a carbon tax?
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Go the Bunnies
 
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john_g
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #38 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:34am
 
MOTR wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:40pm:
Read the science John. Our emissions of carbon dioxide will reduce the productivity of our planet in the future. You're consuming resources at a price well below their true value. It's called intergenerational subsidisation. As a businessman you should know the best way to solve problems like this is through the price mechanism. Instead you want our taxes to subsidise your shift to a less carbon intensive business structure. Tell me what business you're in and I'll tell you where else you're being subsidised.



"Read the science"? Do you mean from so-called experts like Flannery and Garnaut? If so, then no thank you.

I would like toy address my other points. Why did you call me a typical Liberal voter, when I am not, and how is what I earn anyone's business but my own, when I am payed by the tax-payer, but in the private sector?

Gillard lied, you cannot escape this, and why would you call the Coalition and others "morally bankrupt" for pointing out this lie?
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john_g
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #39 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:36am
 
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 8:54am:
MOTR wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:38am:
If Gillard had the numbers in parliament we would not have a carbon tax. She doesn't have the numbers so we have a compromise. What she wasn't prepared to do was put off the inevitable for a more politically convenient time. She has my respect.



Even Tony Abbott said a carbon tax was the best way to deal with the issue so by his evaluation Julia is going down the right road.
Or was Tony lying when he praised a carbon tax?


Are you referring to that infamous video? He says "IF".
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adelcrow
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #40 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:40am
 
john_g wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:36am:
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 8:54am:
MOTR wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:38am:
If Gillard had the numbers in parliament we would not have a carbon tax. She doesn't have the numbers so we have a compromise. What she wasn't prepared to do was put off the inevitable for a more politically convenient time. She has my respect.



Even Tony Abbott said a carbon tax was the best way to deal with the issue so by his evaluation Julia is going down the right road.
Or was Tony lying when he praised a carbon tax?


Are you referring to that infamous video? He says "IF".


If you are going to take action against carbon pollution the best way to go is a carbon tax.
The Libs still have a policy to combat carbon pollution so they obviously believe its needed so why are they not taking the best route according to Tony Abbott?
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Go the Bunnies
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #41 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:36pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:40am:
john_g wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:36am:
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 8:54am:
MOTR wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 7:38am:
If Gillard had the numbers in parliament we would not have a carbon tax. She doesn't have the numbers so we have a compromise. What she wasn't prepared to do was put off the inevitable for a more politically convenient time. She has my respect.



Even Tony Abbott said a carbon tax was the best way to deal with the issue so by his evaluation Julia is going down the right road.
Or was Tony lying when he praised a carbon tax?


Are you referring to that infamous video? He says "IF".


If you are going to take action against carbon pollution the best way to go is a carbon tax.
The Libs still have a policy to combat carbon pollution so they obviously believe its needed so why are they not taking the best route according to Tony Abbott?

Tony Abbott did not sa IF you are going to ebate CO2, then have a tax. He said if you are going to put a price on carbon, then put a simple tax.

Tony Abbott has found the better way of ebatement, while not taxing or putting a price on carbon. Paid for by (if liberals elected as labor could never be a responsible government financial wise) the current tax pool. No tax, no pricing and no socialist redistribution of wealth.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #42 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:37pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:40am:
If you are going to take action against carbon pollution the best way to go is a carbon tax.
?



And hand the money back to people to pay it....

Yeah massively sensible idea.

I wouldn't know what to do with that $3 compensation I would get in tax cuts by the way.

$3 for the whole year. It's like a lotto win eh...
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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adelcrow
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #43 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:46pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:37pm:
adelcrow wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:40am:
If you are going to take action against carbon pollution the best way to go is a carbon tax.
?



And hand the money back to people to pay it....

Yeah massively sensible idea.

I wouldn't know what to do with that $3 compensation I would get in tax cuts by the way.

$3 for the whole year. It's like a lotto win eh...


I dont agree with the compensation aspect because its purely political but as we know people can either use the compensation to pay the extra in their bills or cut their consumption of carbon intensive goods and services and use the compensation for whatever they please.
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Go the Bunnies
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #44 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:48pm
 
Meanwhile.......

China Blocks More Airbus Jets

Move Escalates Trade Battle Over EU's New Levies on Greenhouse Emissions


PARIS—China is holding back the approvals Chinese airlines need to buy 10 more Airbus A330 jetliners, a person close to the situation said Thursday.

The move is part of an escalating trade row over the European Union's new levies on aviation greenhouse emissions. The Chinese authorities have already held back approvals for the purchase of 45 Airbus passenger aircraft by airlines based in China and Hong Kong.
Orders worth more than $14 billion are now at risk for the aircraft-making unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. EAD.FR +0.92%NV. Airbus is a major contributor to French exports.

"There is a hellish battle going on behind the scenes," a senior French government official said Thursday. "We knew [the emissions levies] would provoke strident protests," the official said. "Now we're facing a real threat."

Chinese officials have denied moving to block new Airbus orders. A spokeswoman for the Civil Aviation Administration of China said on Monday that the government "will respect the views of the airlines" in ordering planes. She added that the Chinese government hopes to reach a resolution through negotiation.

Under the EU program, any airline operating at an EU airport must hold special credits to offset its carbon-dioxide emissions since the start of this year. Airlines have said their inclusion in what is known as the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), which already covered many EU industries, will cost them billions of dollars annually.

European airlines as well as Airbus may soon bear the brunt of a trade war, particularly if Russia retaliates, the person close to the situation said. "If Russia imposes [additional] overflight charges, that could turn out to be very expensive for European airlines, [considering] Russia's airspace is huge," the person said. Overflight charges are fees imposed by some countries for flying through their airspace.

Last week, Airbus and European aviation-related companies sent letters to the leaders of France, Germany, Spain and the U.K., warning of consequences of retaliatory action by foreign governments. India had warned that European airlines face the suspension or nonextension of traffic rights or overflights, and Russia has threatened additional overflight charges, they said.

European law makers Thursday backed the inclusion of all airlines in the ETS in a vote in the European Parliament in the French city of Strasbourg.

"If Europe would decide not to implement the legislation just because of the pressure from third countries, that would set a very negative precedent also for other fields of politics such as regulation of the financial market or trade policy," said Matthias Groote and Peter Liese, two members of the assembly who have followed the ETS closely.

Even though the vote is only a political indication with no legal implications, it is significant because the Parliament is throwing its weight behind legislation that has pitted the EU against 23 other countries angry about the carbon-dioxide trading plan. In a joint declaration statement last month after a meeting in Moscow, the countries argued that the EU's unilateral imposition of the ETS program will lead to market distortions and unfair competition.

"The threat of retaliation creates uncertainty in the business environment," said Victoria Moores, spokeswoman for the Association of European Airlines in Brussels. "We want to see concrete steps toward de-escalating this" through the International Civil Aviation Organization, Ms. Moores said. The ICAO is the specialized aviation agency of the United Nations.

The EU is "fighting hard" to get results at ICAO, said a spokesman for EU climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard. "If countries criticizing our system have the necessary political will to make it happen, then let's get it done. In the light of an ambitious global agreement in force, we will review our legislation."

Bertrand Lebel, Executive Vice President of Air France-KLM, said in an interview: "We're caught in the middle. We don't dispute that airlines should contribute to offsetting their emissions, but it has to be done through international negotiation, preferably through the ICAO." He observed that Gulf carriers will benefit most from the ETS, as they will be able to bypass Europe and build up traffic between east and west through their hubs in the Gulf.

EADS said last week the Chinese authorities were holding back approvals for 35 A330s ordered by Chinese airlines as well as 10 A380 super jumbos that are destined for Hong Kong-based airlines. Last month, China banned its airlines from taking part in the ETS plan.

Airbus has already started cutting metal for some of the A330s that are scheduled for delivery to Chinese airlines starting in 2013.

The Chinese customers have made down payments on the aircraft and stand to forfeit these sums if they cancel the orders. Airbus has warned that the loss of the Chinese orders puts 1,000 jobs at risk as well as a similar number at its suppliers.

Industry analysts say Airbus would be able to find airlines willing to take the Chinese delivery slots without any difficulty, provided the manufacturing process isn't too far advanced as airlines require a certain degree of customization of the planes they need.

Retaliatory action against the EU would intensify the pressure on European airlines with long-haul operations, as they struggle to cope with high fuel costs and growing competition.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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