Australian Politics Forum - How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again

john_g

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1549
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #60 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:53pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:49pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:31pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

So pointing out a PM's blatant lie and criticising her for it is 'playing politics? Climate change is hardly a proven science. Why should we believe fools like Flannery after his idiotic and wrong predictions?

No, undermining his leader who had negoiated an ETS with the elected government who BTW campaigned quite openly on bringing one in so therefore had a mandate to do so is the reason Abbott is nothing but a hypocrite when calls for an election for the public to decide on anything.

As proven if he doesn't like what we vote for he ignores it.

So POT/KETTLE BLACK seems to come to mind everytime I hear Abbott spruke his garbage.

Didn't the Coalition vote for Abbott (albeit by 1 vote, although I heard recently that many who voted for Turnbull are now on Abbott's side anyway) because they disagree with Turnbull's agreement with the ETS. Putting Abbott there has done wonders for them. I don't like Abbott very much as a politician, but you can't deny that he has put the Coalition in a terrific place, from the wilderness in which they found themselves when Turnbull was leader.

I been over Turnbulls unfortunate decision to become leader so early many times, needless to say you are ignoring the VERY REAL circumstances of the time.
The ONLY reason Abbott is where he finds himself is because of Labor and Gillard, he is the very fortunate winner of this perfect storm.

I notice in your haste to praise Tony you have ignored the fact he ignored a mandated policly of an elected majority government.
Why now should we believe he wants what voters want?

Yes, perhaps you're correct there.

I don't like Abbott, never really have. He seems a decent sort of man, but I don't like him at all as a politician. I've said as much on more than one occasion.

What do you mean he ignored the policy? Please be more specific here, in what regard do you mean?

Back to top

IP Logged

olde.sault

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2913

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #61 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:55pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:40pm:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

I gave my preferences to Labor because at the last two elections they promised an ETS, something Julia is delivering lock stock, and barrel.

Will you explain what you expect the ETS to do for you and for Australia apart from closing down more businesses and putting people out on the street?

Can you explain how you think an ETS will work & how it will close down business?

Any business, most everything needs power to operate. Someone will have to pay this tax and businesses as well as councils, will just filter it down to the consumers so, what they get in compensation will go to paying the higher costs on everything.

As the government is bringing in this tax to pay for their own mishandling of programs, they'll get their handfuls first and, too bad for those who'll miss out in the distribution.

Just more work for bureaucrats and one big unholy mess for the rest.

Hallelujah!

Back to top

IP Logged

MOTR

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6646

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #62 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:56pm

FriYAY wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 1:26pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 1:03pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 11:34am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 9:40pm:

Read the science John. Our emissions of carbon dioxide will reduce the productivity of our planet in the future. You're consuming resources at a price well below their true value. It's called intergenerational subsidisation. As a businessman you should know the best way to solve problems like this is through the price mechanism. Instead you want our taxes to subsidise your shift to a less carbon intensive business structure. Tell me what business you're in and I'll tell you where else you're being subsidised.

"Read the science"? Do you mean from so-called experts like Flannery and Garnaut? If so, then no thank you.

I would like toy address my other points. Why did you call me a typical Liberal voter, when I am not, and how is what I earn anyone's business but my own, when I am payed by the tax-payer, but in the private sector?

Gillard lied, you cannot escape this, and why would you call the Coalition and others "morally bankrupt" for pointing out this lie?

You're correct, while it might be typical Liberal behaviour, that does not necessarily make you a Liberal.

They are morally bankrupt because they are playing politics with what is surely the greatest threat to humanity we have ever experienced. Once reality hits, Malcolm Turnbull will be the only one of this treasonous lot that will be remembered with any respect. Abbott will be remembered as the man who was prepared to gamble the future of his children, and our children, for his own personal aggrandisement.

World wide emissions are going up. 100's of millions of people are gaining wealth and lifting their carbon foot print as they seek life's comforts and modern technology.

Can you tell me what Tony Abbott can do about it?

So what we desperately need is some sort of global commitment. Something that those on the right have assiduously sort to sabotage. Whether it be Kyoto, Copenhagen or Durban.

Despite this, in Durban, world governments finally committed themselves to write a comprehensive global agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, covering developed and developing countries. Whether you like it or not the world has committed itself to a low carbon future. As the truth comes out momentum will grow and countries that don't come on board are going to be left well behind the pack, dependent on old technology and isolated by certain economic sanctions. Each country that moves on this creates momentum and makes collective action more likely to occur before it is too late. Leaders who foster denialism and pursue business as usual policies imperil our future.

Back to top

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #63 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:01pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:55pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:40pm:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

I gave my preferences to Labor because at the last two elections they promised an ETS, something Julia is delivering lock stock, and barrel.

Will you explain what you expect the ETS to do for you and for Australia apart from closing down more businesses and putting people out on the street?

Can you explain how you think an ETS will work & how it will close down business?

Any business, most everything needs power to operate. Someone will have to pay this tax and businesses as well as councils, will just filter it down to the consumers so, what they get in compensation will go to paying the higher costs on everything.

As the government is bringing in this tax to pay for their own mishandling of programs, they'll get their handfuls first and, too bad for those who'll miss out in the distribution.

Just more work for bureaucrats and one big unholy mess for the rest.

Hallelujah!

Why did Abbott support Howards proposed ETS if it was going to end life as we know it?

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

olde.sault

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2913

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #64 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:07pm

adelcrow wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:44pm:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

I gave my preferences to Labor because at the last two elections they promised an ETS, something Julia is delivering lock stock, and barrel.

Will you explain what you expect the ETS to do for you and for Australia apart from closing down more businesses and putting people out on the street?

John Howard went to his last election promising an ETS so given Howards track record of creating jobs and prosperity for everyone in this country I can only assume its a great idea. Even Tony Abbott thought it was a good idea during that election campaign before supporting a carbon tax before the last election before changing his mind again and again and again blah blah blah

Points out that even intelligent people like Howard and Abbott can have their brains temporarily numbed by bast*rds like Flannery and Garnaut.

Seems that since, both Howard and Abbott have woken up to the hoax science.

On the other hand both may have realised that the carbon dioxide threat was a hoax but just humoured the fools who'd swallowed the propaganda.

After all, they are politicians and sometimes have to go part-way with modern beliefs or get trampled down by a stampede.

Take Rudd who goes to church. . . can anyone believe that he is a true Christian (or a "true" anything)?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dsmithy70

Gold Member

Offline

ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #65 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:53pm:

What do you mean he ignored the policy? Please be more specific here, in what regard do you mean?

Sorry, thought I was being reasonably clear.
Rudd in 07 very publicly campaigned on bringing an ETS in.
He was elected with a majority, which in this day and age is seen as a mandate.
The Greens opposed his model as not strong enough so therefore he negotiated it through with the coalition.
Abbott encouraged by Mitchen and the Nationals then took his chance and knocked off Turnbull as leader, and scrapped the deal, effectively thumbing his nose at the majority of Australian voters and the mandate given to Rudd.

I personally think Abbott would/is a reasonable pollie, if you need someone to pull others into line or doggedly pursue a policy his the one, he's just not a leader or PM he needs to be directed, shown a target.
Which in a way is a reason his doing so well, his target is Gillard but when we start asking what he'll do he goes to water.

Back to top

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #66 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:12pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:44pm:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

I gave my preferences to Labor because at the last two elections they promised an ETS, something Julia is delivering lock stock, and barrel.

Will you explain what you expect the ETS to do for you and for Australia apart from closing down more businesses and putting people out on the street?

John Howard went to his last election promising an ETS so given Howards track record of creating jobs and prosperity for everyone in this country I can only assume its a great idea. Even Tony Abbott thought it was a good idea during that election campaign before supporting a carbon tax before the last election before changing his mind again and again and again blah blah blah

Points out that even intelligent people like Howard and Abbott can have their brains temporarily numbed by bast*rds like Flannery and Garnaut.

Seems that since, both Howard and Abbott have woken up to the hoax science.

On the other hand both may have realised that the carbon dioxide threat was a hoax but just humoured the fools who'd swallowed the propaganda.

After all, they are politicians and sometimes have to go part-way with modern beliefs or get trampled down by a stampede.

Take Rudd who goes to church. . . can anyone believe that he is a true Christian (or a "true" anything)?

Abbott and the Liberal Party supported an ETS right up until Andrew Robb dragged himself out the mental asylum at the request of Iron Bar Tuckey to knife Malcolm Turnbull.

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

Dsmithy70

Gold Member

Offline

ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #67 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:16pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:55pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:40pm:

olde.sault wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

I gave my preferences to Labor because at the last two elections they promised an ETS, something Julia is delivering lock stock, and barrel.

Will you explain what you expect the ETS to do for you and for Australia apart from closing down more businesses and putting people out on the street?

Can you explain how you think an ETS will work & how it will close down business?

Any business, most everything needs power to operate. Someone will have to pay this tax and businesses as well as councils, will just filter it down to the consumers so, what they get in compensation will go to paying the higher costs on everything.

As the government is bringing in this tax to pay for their own mishandling of programs, they'll get their handfuls first and, too bad for those who'll miss out in the distribution.

Just more work for bureaucrats and one big unholy mess for the rest.

Hallelujah!

Another question, if a tax on 500 companies will destroy our economy, cost jobs and raise prices, why won't a tax on 3200 do the same?

Back to top

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

IP Logged

john_g

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1549
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #68 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:53pm:

What do you mean he ignored the policy? Please be more specific here, in what regard do you mean?

Sorry, thought I was being reasonably clear.
Rudd in 07 very publicly campaigned on bringing an ETS in.
He was elected with a majority, which in this day and age is seen as a mandate.
The Greens opposed his model as not strong enough so therefore he negotiated it through with the coalition.
Abbott encouraged by Mitchen and the Nationals then took his chance and knocked off Turnbull as leader, and scrapped the deal, effectively thumbing his nose at the majority of Australian voters and the mandate given to Rudd.

I personally think Abbott would/is a reasonable pollie, if you need someone to pull others into line or doggedly pursue a policy his the one, he's just not a leader or PM he needs to be directed, shown a target.
Which in a way is a reason his doing so well, his target is Gillard but when we start asking what he'll do he goes to water.

Ok, thank you. Yes, I agree on all points. As I have said on countless occasions before, I am a centrist a swinging voter, I have voted Liberal 4 times, Labor 3, so it's nearly even. I don't think that Abbott is PM material either, but he will be no worse than Gillard. Both are terrible choices, in my view. How do you feel?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dsmithy70

Gold Member

Offline

ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #69 - Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:22pm

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:53pm:

What do you mean he ignored the policy? Please be more specific here, in what regard do you mean?

Sorry, thought I was being reasonably clear.
Rudd in 07 very publicly campaigned on bringing an ETS in.
He was elected with a majority, which in this day and age is seen as a mandate.
The Greens opposed his model as not strong enough so therefore he negotiated it through with the coalition.
Abbott encouraged by Mitchen and the Nationals then took his chance and knocked off Turnbull as leader, and scrapped the deal, effectively thumbing his nose at the majority of Australian voters and the mandate given to Rudd.

I personally think Abbott would/is a reasonable pollie, if you need someone to pull others into line or doggedly pursue a policy his the one, he's just not a leader or PM he needs to be directed, shown a target.
Which in a way is a reason his doing so well, his target is Gillard but when we start asking what he'll do he goes to water.

Ok, thank you. Yes, I agree on all points. As I have said on countless occasions before, I am a centrist a swinging voter, I have voted Liberal 4 times, Labor 3, so it's nearly even. I don't think that Abbott is PM material either, but he will be no worse than Gillard. Both are terrible choices, in my view. How do you feel?

Exactly the same only Abbot's front bench scares me alot more than Labors.

Labor may leave a debt but at least they don't encourage & pander to the lowest common denominators in our society.

Back to top

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 25896
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #70 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:08am

MOTR wrote on Mar 16^th, 2012 at 6:50am:

All minority governments are forced to compromise. An interim carbon tax is more consistent with Labor policy than doing nothing. Business as usual would have been a worse breach of faith.

Compromises I can understand and accept. But to go back on what was an iron-clad promise, unambiguous and clear to the Australian people just to win office shows a lack of honour, honesty and integrity. She does not deserve to be our PM for that reason alone.

Back to top

Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

IP Logged

blackadder Gold Member Offline Posts: 1977	Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again Reply #71 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:21am Abbott and the Liberal Party supported an ETS right up until Andrew Robb dragged himself out the mental asylum at the request of Iron Bar Tuckey to knife Malcolm Turnbull. And Keating supported a GST.
Back to top	The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln IP Logged

adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again Reply #72 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:30am blackadder wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:21am: Abbott and the Liberal Party supported an ETS right up until Andrew Robb dragged himself out the mental asylum at the request of Iron Bar Tuckey to knife Malcolm Turnbull. And Keating supported a GST. And so do I
Back to top	Go the Bunnies IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58409
Here
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #73 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:50am

blackadder wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:21am:

Abbott and the Liberal Party supported an ETS right up until Andrew Robb dragged himself out the mental asylum at the request of Iron Bar Tuckey to knife Malcolm Turnbull.

And Keating supported a GST.

Keating supported a consumption tax but abandoned it because they could not find a method of implementation which was not more damaging to the people who could least afford it than any benefit.

The Liberals also could not find a fair implementation of the tax but obviously didn't care about that at all.

Everyone supported the concept of a more broad based tax system in theory.

For the conservatives there was the added bonus of it diverting wealth away from the poor in favour of the more well off. The same reason that Keating eventually dropped the idea.

Back to top

IP Logged

john_g

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1549
Gender: male

Re: How I miss this gem. Oh Juliar, you did it again
Reply #74 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 11:25am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:53pm:

What do you mean he ignored the policy? Please be more specific here, in what regard do you mean?

Sorry, thought I was being reasonably clear.
Rudd in 07 very publicly campaigned on bringing an ETS in.
He was elected with a majority, which in this day and age is seen as a mandate.
The Greens opposed his model as not strong enough so therefore he negotiated it through with the coalition.
Abbott encouraged by Mitchen and the Nationals then took his chance and knocked off Turnbull as leader, and scrapped the deal, effectively thumbing his nose at the majority of Australian voters and the mandate given to Rudd.

I personally think Abbott would/is a reasonable pollie, if you need someone to pull others into line or doggedly pursue a policy his the one, he's just not a leader or PM he needs to be directed, shown a target.
Which in a way is a reason his doing so well, his target is Gillard but when we start asking what he'll do he goes to water.

Ok, thank you. Yes, I agree on all points. As I have said on countless occasions before, I am a centrist a swinging voter, I have voted Liberal 4 times, Labor 3, so it's nearly even. I don't think that Abbott is PM material either, but he will be no worse than Gillard. Both are terrible choices, in my view. How do you feel?

Exactly the same only Abbot's front bench scares me alot more than Labors.

Labor may leave a debt but at least they don't encourage & pander to the lowest common denominators in our society.

Why?

I don't see how the Coalition pander to the LCD more than Labor, either. Could you kindly elaborate?

Back to top

IP Logged