Australian Politics Forum - Does Islam permit rape?

True Colours

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #75 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:17pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:00am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 6:10am:

The UAE does not follow Islamic law. As a former British colony, it follows a mixture of British law and whims of the dictators

Lots of rape victims jailed in the UAE even the aussie girl Alicia Gali, try google.

Do you have to be a dumbfvckistani with an IQ of less than 80 to be a muslim?

The UAE constitution article 7
Quote:

Article 7
Islam is the official religion,The Islamic shariah shall be the main source of legislation,The official language is Arabic.
Link-www.aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/mideast/AE/united-arab-emirates-constitution-1...

Please cite the british law that requires 4 male witnesses for a rape conviction.

Please cite the verse from the Quran or hadeeth that requires 4 male witnesses for a rape conviction.

You can't because there is no such Islamic law.

Scholars of Islam have said that Islamic law allows for a rape conviction on the testimony of one woman based on the following example of the prophet:

Quote:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: "When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: "That (man) did such and such to me." And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she (pointed a man out) saying: "That man did such and such to me." They went and seized the man whom they thought had raped her and brought him to her. She said: "Yes, this is he." Then they brought him to the Messenger of God (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said to her: "Go away, for God has forgiven you." But he told the man some good words (meaning the man who was mistakenly seized), and of the man who had had raped her, he said: "Stone him to death."... (Book #38, Hadith #4366)

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freediver

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #76 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:58pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 4:31am:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Quote:

How Muslims deal with rapists:

TC, would you mind giving a traditional example of a Muslim man being punished in this manner for raping his wife or sex slave? Or even a non-Muslim woman whom he did not own?

A traditional example? Yeah shall I just pull up all the court records that ever existed and check?

Just one will do for now. Is this just another transparent attempt at deflection?

I put it to you that short of Muhammed explicitly stating "go ahead and rape, for it is legal under Islamic law", all the laws and principles the implicitly legalise rape, together with the complete absence of any convictions under Islamic law for rape in the context of sex that is otherwise permitted in Islamic law, make an undeniable case that Islamic law permits rape.

Quote:

Speaking of traditions, perhaps you can give me some example of people being punished for similar crimes in the non-Muslim world prior to the feminist movement in 1970's?

The western world outlawed sex slavery well before the 70s.

Are you suggesting that Islamic law is something better left in the past, where it belongs?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #77 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 1:05pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:17pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:00am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 6:10am:

The UAE does not follow Islamic law. As a former British colony, it follows a mixture of British law and whims of the dictators

Lots of rape victims jailed in the UAE even the aussie girl Alicia Gali, try google.

Do you have to be a dumbfvckistani with an IQ of less than 80 to be a muslim?

The UAE constitution article 7
Quote:

Article 7
Islam is the official religion,The Islamic shariah shall be the main source of legislation,The official language is Arabic.
Link-www.aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/mideast/AE/united-arab-emirates-constitution-1...

Please cite the british law that requires 4 male witnesses for a rape conviction.

Please cite the verse from the Quran or hadeeth that requires 4 male witnesses for a rape conviction.

You can't because there is no such Islamic law.

Please cite from the Quran where rape is forbidden,please use Quran.com to link these verses or people will call bullshit.

Zina is not rape it is unlawful sex which includes consenting sex between adults who may or may not be married,if they are married the penalty for adultery is stoning to death and if unmarried then they are to be flogged 100 times for consenting sex.

The sheikh at Islam qa will spell it out for you-
Quote:

How can four witnesses be brought against a man and woman who commit zina in the present age?

He even quotes from Quran,hadith and scholars-
www.islamqa.com/en/88051

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #78 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 1:14pm

Quote:

It is a bit dishonest to portray what happened this way isn't it - considering that the woman herself withdrew her allegations of rape:

Why is it dishonest? You keep pointing out that she withdrew the allegation. People keep asking you what you think this means. You keep ignoring these questions. Are you incapable of thinking about that it really means?

Quote:

Considering how societies have married women as they reached puberty through nearly all of human history, we would probably have to assume that most of the men who have ever lived would be registered as sex offenders if current Australian law applied to them.

A very high percentage of those men would still be alive today. In any case, the same question applies - are you suggesting that Islamic law should be left in the past, where it belongs?

Quote:

However, if Australian law was based on science rather than subjectivity, then the answer would be no.
A lot of hypocrisy can be found in Australian law. For example, a person can charged with a crime at 11 years of age. If an 11 year-old was really a child in the scientific sense, then why is it that they can be charged with a crime?

What are you trying to say TC? Spell it out, for the people who have a hard time believing you would actually say something so stupid.

Quote:

Zina is not rape it is unlawful sex

According to Abu the only consent that matter's is God's consent. The woman's opinion does not really matter. Hence, under Islamic law, this technically is rape, even if the woman consents. That is why the punishment is the same for consensual sex and actual rape - the punishment is always based on whether the sex is permitted, not whether the woman consented.

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moses

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #79 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 4:58pm

Does Islam permit rape?

Yes it does, the qur'an says so

Quote:

qur'an24.033 SHAKIR: And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

If you force a girl into prostitution, every time someone has sex with her she is being raped. (she has been forced into prostitution, she is forced into sex against her will)

muslims will lie and tell you qur'an24.033 do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste means that rape and forced prostitution is forbidden.

They lie. The very next sentence in qur'an24.033 says :whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

Therefore rape and forced prostitution is not forbidden, it is merely advised against, however if you do not heed this recommendation and force the girl into prostitution and rape, allah is forgiving.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49500 At my desk.	Re: Does Islam permit rape? Reply #80 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 5:12pm It is my understanding that where Islam permits sex, it considers sex to be the man's right and the woman's responsibility. I think that mainly applies to your wives. I have no idea what rights it grants sex slaves, given that a wife's position in Islam is barely better than that of a slave.
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True Colours

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #81 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 10:01pm

moses wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 4:58pm:

Does Islam permit rape?

Yes it does, the qur'an says so

Quote:

qur'an24.033 SHAKIR: And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

If you force a girl into prostitution, every time someone has sex with her she is being raped. (she has been forced into prostitution, she is forced into sex against her will)

muslims will lie and tell you qur'an24.033 do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste means that rape and forced prostitution is forbidden.

They lie. The very next sentence in qur'an24.033 says :whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

Therefore rape and forced prostitution is not forbidden, it is merely advised against, however if you do not heed this recommendation and force the girl into prostitution and rape, allah is forgiving.

I think it that it demonstrates evil psychology on your part that you would even assume that the verse means that.

The verse says:

Quote:

And force not your maids to sexual servitude, if they desire chastity, in seeking the temporary interests of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to sexual servitude), then after such compulsion, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

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« Last Edit: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 5:13am by True Colours »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49500 At my desk.	Re: Does Islam permit rape? Reply #82 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 10:21pm TC where does it say what the punishment is for raping your wives or sex slaves?
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Adamant

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #83 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:01pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:17pm:

Scholars of Islam have said that Islamic law allows for a rape conviction on the testimony of one woman based on the following example of the prophet:

FD I have to agree with True Colours on this one, have a small problem however. It can be extremely injurious to a woman's wellbeing.

Almost 50 percent of women in a study of female deaths in Alexandria, Egypt were killed by a relative after being raped.

As you see True Colours tells no lies of course you can tell them you were raped, that's if you wish to DIE!

http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/currentissues/stigmitizationofrape/

An Afghan woman raped by her cousin’s husband has revealed how she is faced with a horrific dilemma – marry him or spend the next 12 years in jail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065301/Afghan-woman-jailed-raped-cousin...

as for the next one, words fail me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4PFnl1S6Q

Hena Begum was a fourteen year old girl growing up in the Shariatpur region of Bangladesh until her forty year old cousin decided to rape her.

After she was raped, the rapist and his family then beat her until she was unconscious.

Next, the local Sharia (Islamic) courts ruled that yound Hena should receive 101 lashes for the crime of adultery — for the crime of being a child raped by an adult.

The Muslim clerics took the young girl, who still could not stand on her own, to a public square and proceeded to deliver the 101 lashes. After receiving 80 lashes, young Hena collapsed. Her family was allowed to take her to a hospital where she died from her wounds.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100541798/3526343

The article below may explain some form of muslim thinking, but I doubt it.

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html

Do we really require sharia here?

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Yadda

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #84 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 9:10am

Adamant wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:01pm:

FD I have to agree with True Colours on this one, have a small problem however. It can be extremely injurious to a woman's wellbeing.

Almost 50 percent of women in a study of female deaths in Alexandria, Egypt were killed by a relative after being raped.

As you see True Colours tells no lies of course you can tell them you were raped, that's if you wish to DIE!

http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/currentissues/stigmitizationofrape/

An Afghan woman raped by her cousin’s husband has revealed how she is faced with a horrific dilemma – marry him or spend the next 12 years in jail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065301/Afghan-woman-jailed-raped-cousin...

as for the next one, words fail me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4PFnl1S6Q

Hena Begum was a fourteen year old girl growing up in the Shariatpur region of Bangladesh until her forty year old cousin decided to rape her.

After she was raped, the rapist and his family then beat her until she was unconscious.

Next, the local Sharia (Islamic) courts ruled that yound Hena should receive 101 lashes for the crime of adultery — for the crime of being a child raped by an adult.

The Muslim clerics took the young girl, who still could not stand on her own, to a public square and proceeded to deliver the 101 lashes. After receiving 80 lashes, young Hena collapsed. Her family was allowed to take her to a hospital where she died from her wounds.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100541798/3526343

The article below may explain some form of muslim thinking, but I doubt it.

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html

Do we really require sharia here?

moslem = = a person who revels in, and justifies, institutionalised blame shifting [blame shifting from the guilty strong person, to the weak victim]

And it is the authority of ISLAM which makes lawful this institutionalised blame shifting.

+++

not in the main JW article,
but a posting as a comment, by,
A_Nonny_Mouse | July 26, 2007 8:07 PM
....
Quote:

Shame vs. Guilt

The Western culture, is guilt based.
The Eastern culture is shame based.
For Easterners, everything is about image and how others see us.
The opposite of guilt is innocence.

If your ethos is guilt based, you have an inner police that stops you from doing wrong because doing wrong makes you feel guilty.

If your ethos is shame based, all you care is to preserve your image.

The opposite of shame is honor.

You can do wrong but as long as no one sees it, your image is not tarnished and you can still be seen as an honorable person.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/07/former-sydney-imam-who-produced-dvds-calling-f...i

Sharia Australia

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295543010/5#5
Quote:

We must continue to examine and criticise ISLAM.
And criticise its culture of guilt 'avoidance' [through destroying, killing, its critics].

ISLAM promotes itself, through its adherents, by claiming that ISLAM is a honourable and beneficial philosophy for mankind.
But no one, either inside ISLAM [moslems], or outside ISLAM [non-moslems], is allowed to critically examine ISLAM, and its tenets and precepts.
Indeed, within ISLAMIC jurisdictions, critics of ISLAM are often summarily killed, for their 'crime' of 'insulting' [the honour of] ISLAM.
If ISLAM truly is a honourable and beneficial philosophy to mankind, why is critical examination of ISLAM always met with violence by its adherents???

One of the essential differences between our 'Western' culture, and ISLAM, is that we have embraced self criticism.
But, ISLAM never has.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #85 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 9:11am

Google;
the difference between shame, and guilt based culture, islam

Quote:

"How to Beat Jihad

....Shame vs. Guilt
Islamic cultures are shame based. Shame is a painful experience. To avoid shame you have to hide the source of shame. This means you must protect the image. Your entire self esteem and self worth depends on that image. When you are shamed you become violence. Violence is one way we humans deal with shame.....
.....The Western culture, is guilt based. The Eastern culture is shame based. For us Easterners, everything is about image and how others see us.
The opposite of guilt is innocence. If your ethos is guilt based, you have an inner police that stops you from doing wrong because doing wrong makes you feel guilty.
If your ethos is shame based, all you care is to preserve your image. The opposite of shame is honor. You can do wrong but as long as no one sees it, your image is not tarnished and you can still be seen as an honorable person. In a shame based culture, wrong and right have no meaning. It is all about shame and honor. If the stain of shame is removed, even if it means the murder of your own daughter, honor is restored. These are two very different worldviews. Unless we understand them we will not be able to make sense of Muslims and their minds."

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina70723.htm

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #86 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 9:51am

Adamant wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:01pm:

True Colours wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:17pm:

Scholars of Islam have said that Islamic law allows for a rape conviction on the testimony of one woman based on the following example of the prophet:

FD I have to agree with True Colours on this one, have a small problem however.

I agree that Islam does allow for rape convictions. However this is only in the context of sex that is not permitted, and the punishment for the rapist is the same as if the sex had been consensual. Obviously it makes a difference to whether the woman is punished or forgiven.

In situations where Islam permits sex (wives and sex slaves), rape is not a punishable offence. I have even gotten Muslims to admit this directly.

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moses

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #87 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 2:00pm

True Colours wrote;
Quote:

I think it that it demonstrates evil psychology on your part that you

would even assume that the verse means that.

The verse says:

Quote:

And force not your maids to sexual servitude, if they desire chastity, in seeking the temporary interests of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to sexual servitude), then after such compulsion, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

You are running from the issue True Colours.

islam does not forbid rape with the above verse.

If something is forbidden, it is commanded against, entirely banned.

If the above verse is forbidding rape, why isn't it clearly stated the offence is prohibited and punishable?

Instead the above verse supplies a proviso, for when the forced prostitution / rape occurs. The verse is accepting the crime and saying allah is forgiving.

The whole thing stinks of muslim lies. The verse is merely suggesting don't force women to be whores and rape them, but if you do allah is merciful.

As for the bit about forgiving a woman who did not sin: How can you forgive a sin that has not been committed?

Can you tell me why the woman has to be forgiven? She has done no wrong. She was an innocent victim. (She didn't commit the offence, the muslim who was raping her perpetrated the crime.)

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True Colours

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Re: Does Islam permit rape?
Reply #88 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 3:17pm

Adamant wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Do we really require sharia here?

None of the cases you mentioned involve proper sharia courts. Rather vigilante courts that run by village idiots.

Saudi Arabia has sharia courts. Let's see how Saudi Arabia deals with rapists:

Quote:

Saudi beheads three men for rape

Two Chadians and one Saudi man were publicly beheaded in Saudi Arabia on Monday, following a guilty verdict in a particularly gruesome rape.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/314447

Australia has no sharia courts, Adrian Bayley was free to rape and kill Jill Meagher despite previously having already raped 8 women. Already jailed twice for rape - only 2 years the first time. Australia's rape laws are no deterrents for these diseased animals.

Quote:

Adrian Bayley to be sentenced over rape and murder of Jill Meagher

In a pre-sentencing hearing last week, the prosecution revealed Bayley's long history of violent attacks on women, spanning more than 20 years.

Quote:

Key points

*Adrian Bayley has pleaded guilty to killing Jill Meagher last year.
*He will be sentenced today in the Victorian Supreme Court.
*The prosecution has called for him to be jailed for life.
*The defence says he should be given a non-parole term so he has hope of release.
*In a pre-sentencing hearing last week, Bayley's violent past was revealed.
*He has served a total of 11 years in prison for the rape and attempted rape of eight women

Bayley was on parole when he raped and murdered Ms Meagher in 2012.

The case has highlighted failings by the Victorian Parole Board.
It also revealed he has previously bluffed his way through prison rehabilitation courses.

Bayley was also on parole when he snatched Ms Meagher off Sydney Road in Brunswick as she tried to make a five-minute walk home after a night out with friends.

The fact his parole was not revoked after Bayley admitted to bashing a man unconscious, leaving him free to walk the streets of Melbourne, has highlighted failings by the Victorian Parole Board to monitor sex offenders on parole...

Bayley told police 'they should never have let me out'

During a 10-hour police interview, Bayley gave a candid assessment of the high risk he posed to women after admitting he strangled Ms Meagher and then dumped her body in Gisborne South, 50 kilometres north of Victoria.

"I'm going to jail for a long time... I hope they bring back the death penalty before I get sentenced. I have no life left," Bayley told detectives.

"They should have the death penalty for people like me.

"How many chances does a person need? They should never have let me out."

Earlier this year, the Victorian Government admitted existing parole laws had failed and tougher measures were needed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-19/adrian-bayley-to-be-sentenced-for-jill-meagher-murder/4763698

Yes Australia needs sharia.

Death for rapists!

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« Last Edit: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 3:27pm by True Colours »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49500 At my desk.	Re: Does Islam permit rape? Reply #89 - Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 3:30pm Quote: Yes Australia needs sharia. So are soldiers should be allowed to take women home from Iraq and Afghanistan as sex slaves? What would the appropriate punishment be under Shariah law if one of them happened to (God forbid) rape their sex slave?
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Poll
Question: How Rapists Be Dealt With
Off with their heads! Sharia style! 2 (100.0%) Couple of years in jail will do 0 (0.0%) Luxury Jails like Sweden 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 2 « Created by: True Colours on: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 3:47pm »