Australian Politics Forum - Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?

Frances

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #90 - Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 3:10pm:

One of the things people are afraid of here is that people might still feel a sense of loyalty to their country of origin. Do you think that's a good thing? I don't think it's a particularly good thing. That's one of the reasons why a lot of people are opposed to multiculturalism and too-much immigration. It's because it might include loyalty to a foreign country.

For example, a common question asked of anyone who doesn't have white skin or who has black hair is, "What country do you come from?" If you've got British, European or Russian ancestry you probably wouldn't be asked that question. It's a legitimate question and I wouldn't say it's nobody's business, but it seems like your country of origin tends to be important to people. If they have any reason to be afraid of you, your country of origin would be one of the first things they ask. The second question would then be, do you still love your country of origin?

If we can all agree to denounce and renounce our origins, people of different backgrounds might be seen as less of a threat. That way, people have less of a reason to say, "get on a boat and go back to your own country."

Excluding corporate_whitey's posts, yours is the biggest load of crap I've seen today. Of course you have to pledge loyalty to your adopted country, Australia in this case, but there is no reason to insist on a person denouncing their country of origin. Any normal person, with the possible exception of a refugee fleeing persecution, would retain feelings for, and fond memories of, the homeland they left behind. Of course a person's country of origin remains important to them - it is part of what has made them what they are today.

To put the boot on the other foot, if you moved to another country, how would you react if someone said you had to denounce and hate Australia before you would be made welcome in your new country?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #91 - Mar 21^st, 2012 at 9:49pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:43pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 5:44pm:

Additionally, if you "go with the flow," then there should be no reason to disagree with a "flow" toward 99% whites.

Correct.

I'm not against it if it happens, however, I'm not pushing for any such change.

If it happens, so be it. No problem.

If it doesn't, so be it. No problem.

Skin colour does not frighten me, nor does the percentage of black or white people in Australia.

I'm happy with the status quo, but have no plans to resist any change.

I see. So why the heated response of yours to Matty?

Quote:

And why is that:

* racist?
* bigot?
* xenophobe?
* Pauline Hanson fan?
* Bolt Report viewer?
* troll
* all of the above?

Or, is there just no rational reason?

Sounds like you actually do have a problem with Matty's views.

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Mnemonic

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #92 - Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

To put the boot on the other foot, if you moved to another country, how would you react if someone said you had to denounce and hate Australia before you would be made welcome in your new country?

For me, it would be pretty simple. If I couldn't be loyal to that country, couldn't let go of my origins and if the people there didn't accept me, I wouldn't live there.

I think that is a question for you too. You may have overlooked the fact that many countries make it really hard for you to "become one of their own." Just try to become Chinese, Japanese or Korean. I don't think they'll ever completely accept you even if you learnt their language, table manners, ways of greeting people and ate their food. You may be allowed to live in Japan, China or Korea legally, but they'd never think of you as one of them. How many Westerners have become Chinese, Japanese or Korean? I assume it's a very tiny number. Maybe zero. Consider yourself lucky that being Australian isn't a matter of roots or ancestry, but law.

In a lot of countries and cultures it is expected that you will give up your roots and become completely immersed in the other to prove you are one of them. It isn't a surprise to a lot of people.

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

Excluding corporate_whitey's posts, yours is the biggest load of crap I've seen today. Of course you have to pledge loyalty to your adopted country, Australia in this case, but there is no reason to insist on a person denouncing their country of origin.

Really? I'm insisting that people give up their roots? If that's what you think this is about, then you've clearly misunderstood what I was saying. I was never asking you to force your friend or next-door neighbour to do this.

It's something we would all willingly do just to co-exist. I think there are plenty who become biased against their own ancestral origins just to fit in -- whether it's whites, Asians or Middle-Easterners. This is what the white nationalists are complaining about. They think the white people who support more immigration are self-hating whites, but there are plenty of Asians who "hate" their ancestral origins enough to try to fit in with their "white" friends. Naturally, you have to "hate" your own kind enough to eliminate racism. We're all making sacrifices and compromises to accommodate the other. This isn't a one-way street.

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

but there is no reason to ..............

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

Any normal person, with the possible exception of a refugee fleeing persecution, would retain feelings for, and fond memories of, the homeland they left behind. Of course a person's country of origin remains important to them - it is part of what has made them what they are today.

No reason to denounce your country of origin? What if your new country and original country were enemies? I think living in a country surrounded by a big blue sea, you've gotten a little too comfortable. If Australia was ever threatened by an invasion force, I think a lot of people would suddenly get paranoid. A lot of hidden racism would suddenly surface. White nationalists would get more support and if people haven't worked hard to ditch their roots, they'd have even more support. There may be a time in the future where you will be forced to choose. When that day comes, any lingering memories of your childhood in another country will have to be tossed aside. You can't serve two masters. You're claiming people are incapable of making that choice.

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Frances

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #93 - Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 9:42am

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am:

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

To put the boot on the other foot, if you moved to another country, how would you react if someone said you had to denounce and hate Australia before you would be made welcome in your new country?

For me, it would be pretty simple. If I couldn't be loyal to that country, couldn't let go of my origins and if the people there didn't accept me, I wouldn't live there.

I don't see any reason why someone cannot be loyal to two countries (other than if those two countries were at war with eachother). I would expect though that more loyalty would need to be shown to the person's adopted country than to their country of origin.

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am:

I think that is a question for you too. You may have overlooked the fact that many countries make it really hard for you to "become one of their own." Just try to become Chinese, Japanese or Korean. I don't think they'll ever completely accept you even if you learnt their language, table manners, ways of greeting people and ate their food. You may be allowed to live in Japan, China or Korea legally, but they'd never think of you as one of them. How many Westerners have become Chinese, Japanese or Korean? I assume it's a very tiny number. Maybe zero. Consider yourself lucky that being Australian isn't a matter of roots or ancestry, but law.

In a lot of countries and cultures it is expected that you will give up your roots and become completely immersed in the other to prove you are one of them. It isn't a surprise to a lot of people.

I used to know someone (an Australian) who spoke fluent Japanese, married a Japanese girl, and settled in Japan. I have lost touch with him now, but the last time I spoke to him he said that he was doing quite nicely over there (he was teaching English somewhere or other) and was accepted by the locals, but treated to an extent as an outsider. There would be quite a few countries where "incomers" would not be fully accepted, and not all of those countries are Asian.

Australia is not like that though, although there are a significant number of intolerant people here. I was once walking through The Rocks and an elderly woman leaning against a fence singled me out, started into a tirade about foreigners and shouted at me to go back where I came from. If I felt like an argument, I would have told her that I was Australian and therefore I was already where I came from, but it didn't seem worth it, so I just walked off. Sometimes I think back to that day and wonder where she actually thought I came from....

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am:

I'm insisting that people give up their roots? If that's what you think this is about, then you've clearly misunderstood what I was saying. I was never asking you to force your friend or next-door neighbour to do this.

That was how I read what you wrote. It seems I misinterpreted some of what you said.

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am:

Naturally, you have to "hate" your own kind enough to eliminate racism. We're all making sacrifices and compromises to accommodate the other. This isn't a one-way street.

I can't agree that you have to "hate" your own kind to eliminate racism. Surely if "hate" is involved, the object of the hate would be certain entrenched attitudes rather than "your own kind".

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 12:08am:

Frances wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 4:10pm:

Any normal person, with the possible exception of a refugee fleeing persecution, would retain feelings for, and fond memories of, the homeland they left behind. Of course a person's country of origin remains important to them - it is part of what has made them what they are today.

No reason to denounce your country of origin? What if your new country and original country were enemies? I think living in a country surrounded by a big blue sea, you've gotten a little too comfortable. If Australia was ever threatened by an invasion force, I think a lot of people would suddenly get paranoid. A lot of hidden racism would suddenly surface. White nationalists would get more support and if people haven't worked hard to ditch their roots, they'd have even more support. There may be a time in the future where you will be forced to choose. When that day comes, any lingering memories of your childhood in another country will have to be tossed aside. You can't serve two masters. You're claiming people are incapable of making that choice.

This would, I think, only be an issue if hostilities broke out between the two countries in question. Obviously, in those circumstances, a choice would have to be made. It would be a painful decision to make, but it would have to be made.

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Mnemonic

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #94 - Mar 23^rd, 2012 at 4:40pm

Frances wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 9:42am:

I don't see any reason why someone cannot be loyal to two countries (other than if those two countries were at war with eachother). I would expect though that more loyalty would need to be shown to the person's adopted country than to their country of origin.

If the two countries are allies, you can get dual citizenship. No problem there. Former Cold War adversaries or "rogue states," however, would be a different story. People might be suspicious of immigrants from those countries -- hence the need to maybe distance yourself from those regimes. If you start talking about how you "love" those countries and react badly when people start criticising them, you might get yourself into a "faux pas." Then people would think you support those regimes, and that isn't a good situation. You survive, but it's embarrassing.

Frances wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 9:42am:

Australia is not like that though, although there are a significant number of intolerant people here. I was once walking through The Rocks and an elderly woman leaning against a fence singled me out, started into a tirade about foreigners and shouted at me to go back where I came from. If I felt like an argument, I would have told her that I was Australian and therefore I was already where I came from, but it didn't seem worth it, so I just walked off. Sometimes I think back to that day and wonder where she actually thought I came from....

When I was a kid, people said it was rude to speak a language other than English in public. Even a few years back (as an adult) when I was returning home from university, it was still considered rude. A bunch of Chinese guys were speaking Mandarin to each other and a Caucasian girl was listening to them. When she got off at one of the stops, she was really angry that they were speaking Mandarin in public. She hit the bus really hard and yelled something about how disgusted she was that they were not speaking English. That girl felt threatened by two or three guys speaking Mandarin.

Frances wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2012 at 9:42am:

I can't agree that you have to "hate" your own kind to eliminate racism. Surely if "hate" is involved, the object of the hate would be certain entrenched attitudes rather than "your own kind".

I would agree that "peer pressure" isn't a particularly healthy thing, but then again, we all have to endure a little bit of pain to belong to a community. It's been like that since the beginning of human civilisation. I know -- it's oppressive, but it's just how society works. Every society and culture does that. You have to conform. If you're only allowed to speak English in public, that can be pretty harsh. When you're a kid and you want friends, it's a small world and it's a big deal. When you're an adult, got a job and you're independent, it's not so bad. You can always escape and get away from those "bad people." Most people out there are more tolerant and flexible anyway. Even if people don't like you, they don't have the power to make your life difficult. If they do, you can just go to a court and get a restraining order.

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Frances

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #95 - Mar 23^rd, 2012 at 5:03pm

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2012 at 4:40pm:

If the two countries are allies, you can get dual citizenship. No problem there. Former Cold War adversaries or "rogue states," however, would be a different story. People might be suspicious of immigrants from those countries -- hence the need to maybe distance yourself from those regimes. If you start talking about how you "love" those countries and react badly when people start criticising them, you might get yourself into a "faux pas." Then people would think you support those regimes, and that isn't a good situation. You survive, but it's embarrassing.

Yes, I actually have both an Australian and a UK passport, but that's a combination that wouldn't raise any eyebrows. As for the Cold war, do you think anyone would bother about that now? In any case, if you say you love the country, it's not the same as saying you love the regime. If you ask my father-in-law what he thinks of Italy, he'll go on about how wonderful the place is, and then finish off by saying that he wouldn't want to live their because the government is useless...

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2012 at 4:40pm:

When I was a kid, people said it was rude to speak a language other than English in public. Even a few years back (as an adult) when I was returning home from university, it was still considered rude. A bunch of Chinese guys were speaking Mandarin to each other and a Caucasian girl was listening to them. When she got off at one of the stops, she was really angry that they were speaking Mandarin in public. She hit the bus really hard and yelled something about how disgusted she was that they were not speaking English. That girl felt threatened by two or three guys speaking Mandarin.

I can't understand why people object to someone else speaking another language. It would be different if it was wartime, but it isn't. I don't have a problem with people speaking another language - after all does it really matter that you can't listen in to their conversation?

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bludger

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #96 - Jun 13^th, 2012 at 11:48pm

'Twas an evening in November as I very well remember.
I was strolling down the street in drunken proid.
When me knees went all a-flutter and I landed in the gutter
And a pig came up and lay down by moi side.
Welll.. I wuz laying in the gutter tinking torts I could not utter
When a colleen passing by did softly say...
You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses.
And at that the pig got up and walked away. Grin

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Mathew

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Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you?
Reply #97 - Sep 15^th, 2012 at 10:59pm

92% white? Really?

Read the thread on this website "A Rapidly Declining White Australian Percentage"
I think you will be quite surprised to know the current demographic percentage of Australia.
The thread actually has a breakdown of the racial demographics of Australia, rather then the ambiguous CIA statistics of "92% white 8% other" I know for a fact they do it on purpose to obscure whats happening in western nations.

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Upton Sinclair Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 496	Re: Australia is 92% white. Does that sadden you? Reply #98 - Sep 16^th, 2012 at 11:02am Mathew wrote on Sep 15^th, 2012 at 10:59pm: I know for a fact
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