Australian Politics Forum - Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit

Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30089 Gender:	Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit Reply #105 - Mar 31^st, 2012 at 7:54pm checkout gods plan Who would worship the creator of this ? madweekend would !!
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30089 Gender:	Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit Reply #106 - Mar 31^st, 2012 at 8:33pm more of gods plan in action madweekend reckons the thing that created this also cured his daughter !!
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NBNMyths

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #107 - Mar 31^st, 2012 at 9:48pm

I'll just leave this here:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

In other words,

If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship.

If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God.

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Yadda

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #108 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

I'll just leave this here:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

In other words,

If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship.

If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God.

Hey NBNMyths,

You should read the story of the man Naboth, .....his story is in 1 Kings 21

Naboth died as a righteous man. [....his righteousness is confirmed in 1 Kings 21:3]

Jesus too, died as a righteous man.

Hey NBNMyths,

Naboth's story is an example of what you are talking about [above].
Naboth was the victim of evil men, and a person whom God [apparently] was not able/willing to protect.

So what is the point, of God allowing wicked men to murder Naboth [and Jesus too] ?

What was God trying to prove, by letting wicked men murder men like Naboth [and Jesus] ?
I ask, coz hey!, you are a smart guy.
And you are a person who has the eyes to see, ...what is 'apparent', to everyone.
Right ?

And, another question....
Who are the "children of Belial"
in Naboths story ??? [mentioned at, 1 Kings 21:13]

Oh, the "children of Belial", they must be those same guys that are mentioned in Bobby's post # 104
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332568105/104#104

???

+++

SOME ANSWERS...

Naboth was murdered by the "children of Belial".

1 Kings 21:13
And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

The "children of Belial", are false witnesses.

n.b.
The "children of Belial" murdered Jesus too.

What did Jesus say about the "children of Belial" ???

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Who are the "children of Belial" ???

What does this bible verse mean....

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

???

Jesus again, speaking to the "children of Belial"...

Luke 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

That is right.

The friends [the children!] of wickedness, are, through their own choices today, 'securing' their own certain future.

Is that assertion just a fairytale?

No, this is pure scientific method, being played out in our lives.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Newton's Third Law of Motion

Here is a simple question for you.....

Do you believe in the validity of the scientific model [i.e. 'cause and effect'] ?
OR,
Do you believe in wickedness ?

Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30089 Gender:	Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit Reply #109 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 11:38am Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am: [quote author=1C101C1F2B263A21520 link=1332568105/107#107 date=1333194497]I'll just leave this here: Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales. So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ?? Science says it isn't
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Yadda

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #110 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:22pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 11:38am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am:

Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales.

So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ??

Science says it isn't Wink

1.
Yes.

and,

2.
Science says no such thing.

Science, that is, the scientific process, has been corrupted by men.
i.e.
Men look for evidence that will support what they want to believe, and they turn away from the evidence which does not align with, and agree with, their own worldview.

And, THAT, is not science.

Google;

science fraud

278,000,000 hits

If you want to examine and challenge my arguments on this subject, here are some of them.....

Israeli scientist discovers the 'impossible'
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1317865021/33#33

Evolution, Dinosaurs, and Creation
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224743792/0#0

did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1313373316/6#6

EVEN BETTER.....
......IS AN IMAGE OF 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD T-REX SOFT TISSUE.
The Missing Link...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242797856/89#89

Multiculti - preserve cultural id amid enemies
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242606209/30#30

Evolution, is a theory.
Evolution, is a theory.
Evolution, is a theory.
Duh.
Is Religion compatible with Evolution?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312987029/8#8

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95886 Gender:	Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit Reply #111 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:37pm Friends, believe this man. He is good Pakistani thinkings.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21779 A cat with a view	Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit Reply #112 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:37pm: Friends, believe this man. He is good Pakistani thinkings. LOL K, Haven't you got an egg to fry, .....or something ? p.s. And just remember K, .....my imaginary friend is bigger than your imaginary friend.
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NBNMyths

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #113 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

I'll just leave this here:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

In other words,

If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship.

If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God.

Hey NBNMyths,

You should read the story of the man Naboth, .....his story is in 1 Kings 21

Naboth died as a righteous man. [....his righteousness is confirmed in 1 Kings 21:3]

Jesus too, died as a righteous man.

Hey NBNMyths,

Naboth's story is an example of what you are talking about [above].
Naboth was the victim of evil men, and a person whom God [apparently] was not able/willing to protect.

So what is the point, of God allowing wicked men to murder Naboth [and Jesus too] ?

What was God trying to prove, by letting wicked men murder men like Naboth [and Jesus] ?
I ask, coz hey!, you are a smart guy.
And you are a person who has the eyes to see, ...what is 'apparent', to everyone.
Right ?

And, another question....
Who are the "children of Belial"
in Naboths story ??? [mentioned at, 1 Kings 21:13]

Oh, the "children of Belial", they must be those same guys that are mentioned in Bobby's post # 104
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332568105/104#104

???

+++

SOME ANSWERS...

Naboth was murdered by the "children of Belial".

1 Kings 21:13
And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

The "children of Belial", are false witnesses.

n.b.
The "children of Belial" murdered Jesus too.

What did Jesus say about the "children of Belial" ???

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Who are the "children of Belial" ???

What does this bible verse mean....

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jesus again, speaking to the "children of Belial"...

Luke 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

That is right.

The friends [the children!] of wickedness, are, through their own choices today, 'securing' their own certain future.

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #114 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:40pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:22pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 11:38am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am:

Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales.

So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ??

Science says it isn't Wink

1.
Yes.

and,

2.
Science says no such thing.

Science, that is, the scientific process, has been corrupted by men.
i.e.
Men look for evidence that will support what they want to believe, and they turn away from the evidence which does not align with, and agree with, their own worldview.

And that's exactly what christians do !! They try and map the whole of the Universe into one old book written thousands of years ago by peasants !!

more of gods plan just for you !!

and remember what your bible says about gods plan Wink

Quote:

Psalm 139:16
New Living Translation (NLT)
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #115 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:43pm

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

It also means that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions which means the humans are blameless in these acts simply because god planned it all Cheesy

LOL

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Yadda

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A cat with a view

Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #116 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:52pm

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

Yes.

That is what the wicked do.

They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption.

And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God.

Google;
miscarriage link to abortion

Google;
heroin baby

Google;
link food additives, disease

Google;
clean healthy blood, NO CANCER

etc, etc, etc.....

Why do some women choose to get abortions ?

Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ?

Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ?

And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

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« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:01pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #117 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:03pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:52pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

Yes.

That is what the wicked do.

They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption.

And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God.

Google;
miscarriage link to abortion

Google;
heroin baby

Google;
link food additives, disease

Google;
clean healthy blood, NO CANCER

etc, etc, etc.....

Why do some women get abortions ?

Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ?

Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ?

And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:-

Quote:

Psalm 139:16
New Living Translation (NLT)
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all Wink

LOL

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Yadda

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Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #118 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:36pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:03pm:

You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:-

Quote:

Psalm 139:16
New Living Translation (NLT)
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all Wink

LOL

I'm a [flawed] human being.

And i understand that a cat will stalk and hunt a mouse, ....if the cat sees the mouse.

I know this, because i know something of the nature of a cat.

Knowing this, is not 'magic'.

Regards your assertion [i.e. god plans all murders, rapes, wars, etc], God knows our nature. [ ...better than we do!]

And then there is the 'element' and nature of time.

Perhaps God can travel along time, just like we humans can travel back and forth along a highway.

We humans, do not [really] know what time is.

Is time constant ?

Does it speed up, or slow down ?

And regards our own conduct, is God evil, because he allows us to have, and to express, our own free will ?

Consider.

How does a child learn ?

How can a child learn anything worthwhile [about life], if its parent will not allow the child to make its own mistakes ?

+++

IMO;
You want a God who will allow you to do everything that you wish to do, but will always rescue you, from the consequences of your bad choices.

You want a God who is only beneficial to your own interests, AS YOU PERCEIVE THEM.

The difference between people like yourself, and myself, is that i trust God [i trust his intent].

I know that God is just.

But conversely, i do not trust men.

Because being one, i know their nature too!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NBNMyths

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Gender: male

Re: Do people who believes fairy tales have credibilit
Reply #119 - Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 4:26pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:52pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

Yes.

That is what the wicked do.

They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption.

And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God.

Google;
miscarriage link to abortion

Google;
heroin baby

Google;
link food additives, disease

Google;
clean healthy blood, NO CANCER

etc, etc, etc.....

Why do some women choose to get abortions ?

Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ?

Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ?

And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

What a load of rubbish, on so may levels.

First, inflicting pain, suffering, misery and death on an innocent child is not punishing the (supposedly) wicked parents, it is punishing the innocent child. If you (and your god) can't see that, then you are from a bizarre reality indeed.

Second, the thought that pain, suffering, misery and death only occur to "wicked" parents who have undertaken abortions, been addicted to heroin etc etc is absolute bunkum.

Let me give you an example. A close relative of mine is an absolutely devout Christian. Lives her life entirely focussed around God and the Bible. She has been this way all her life. Never taken drugs, doesn't even drink or smoke. Never "lived in Sin", goes to Church every Sunday, cooks, cleans, does volunteer work for the church, gives stuff away. Been overseas as a missionary. etc etc. You get the idea.

They have 5 children, and has had 4 miscarriages along the way. She has one chronically ill child. Lost their house when their business went under, because they were ripped off by the person they bought it from (who is laughing all the way to the bank). Hubby works 6 days a week, and spends the 7th helping to run their local church.

Where is the wickedness that caused God to deliver them this adversity?

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Poll
Question: Does an adult who believes in fairy tales have credibility?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 5 (33.3%) No 10 (66.7%) Total votes: 15 « Created by: bobbythefap1 on: Mar 24^th, 2012 at 3:48pm »