Australian Politics Forum - Israel finally declared terrorist state

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #105 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 5:09am

falah wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

who say they disappear?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PaG-oRPFduY/TiweYiztuXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/1NAXPONTmdc/s1600/...

Avram, can't you understand that many outsiders are concerned about the concentration of the Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas of land. We can see Israel moving further and further away from a two state solution. I don't believe you will be happy until Israel controls the whole of Judea and Samaria.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #106 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:01am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

Of course they do.
Hamas is free to throw opposition party members off rooftops, kneecap the occasional opposition member and hold their populace under the jackboot and suppress any form of opposition.
Free as birds they are.

They just don't have control over the weapons they try to smuggle in, and they don't have control over the funding of Gaza.

The Palestinian Authority does (Fatah) in the West Bank, and last I heard the Palestinian Authority was withholding funding for their own political reasons.

They have control over the state TV and radio, which daily tells the people that Jews are pigs, the holocaust was a good thing, the children are taught to hate Jews, and the children are shown maps of the region with the word 'Palestine' plastered over the top where the word Israel is on every other map on the planet.

They also have autonomy over their decision to shoot rockets into Sderot, or launch an anti tank missile at canary yellow school buses driving outside the wall killing and maiming the kids inside.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #107 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:03am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well.

You could not think your suggestion works if this is so.

Tell me why Caine didn't know there was a grasshopper at his foot yet a blind man did?

It was in the script Bobby.
It was a TV show, it's not real dude.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #108 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:14am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

[quote]
No there was not.

You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land?
How then did Israel come to be?
Was it by magic or something?
Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.
Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting.
You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations.
The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them.
And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves.
War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed.
Not the other way around.
Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead.
And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded.
And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed.
Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

Quote:

So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine.
One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan.
And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel.
And they were trounced.
Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain.
And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

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Bobby.

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #109 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:21am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:03am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

[quote author=033430232F77770A2D302D352B3638420 link=1332819060/80#80 date=1333010041]Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well.

You could not think your suggestion works if this is so.

Tell me why Caine didn't know there was a grasshopper at his foot yet a blind man did?[/quote]

It was in the script Bobby.
It was a TV show, it's not real dude.

It seems real to me as it's a great analogy to why
Avram can't understand how other's see the Middle East.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #110 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:37am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

[quote]
No there was not.

You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land?
How then did Israel come to be?
Was it by magic or something?
Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.
Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting.
You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations.
The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them.
And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves.
War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed.
Not the other way around.
Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead.
And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded.
And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed.
Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

Quote:

So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine.
One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan.
And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel.
And they were trounced.
Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain.
And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear?

This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106219 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #111 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:45am Israel is proof that WW2 never ended.
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #112 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 9:50am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

[quote]
No there was not.

You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land?
How then did Israel come to be?
Was it by magic or something?
Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.
Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting.
You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations.
The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them.
And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves.
War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed.
Not the other way around.
Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead.
And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded.
And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed.
Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

Quote:

So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine.
One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan.
And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel.
And they were trounced.
Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain.
And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear?
This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from

No, the inhabitants didn't disappear.
The Jordanians there were no longer Jordanian.
The Egyptians there were no longer Egyptian.
The Syrians there were no longer Syrian.
Those in the British Protectorate were no longer members of the British Protectorate.
In 1948, those within the UN designated land became Israeli.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #113 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 9:57am Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. Ain't that the truth.
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bobbythefap1

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #114 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 9:59am

Quote:

No, the inhabitants didn't disappear.
The Jordanians there were no longer Jordanian.
The Egyptians there were no longer Egyptian.
The Syrians there were no longer Syrian.
Those in the British Protectorate were no longer members of the British Protectorate.
In 1948, those within the UN designated land became Israeli.

So by their label changing they somehow disappeared?

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #115 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am

Soren wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:18pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that.

What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else.

Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it?

Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza.

There is no genuine autonomy.

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Bobby.

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #116 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:03am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Soren wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:18pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that.

What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else.

Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it?

Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza.

There is no genuine autonomy.

What is the difference between Gaza & the Warsaw ghetto?

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #117 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:06am Not much, Bobby.
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #118 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:42am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

[quote]
No there was not.

You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land?
How then did Israel come to be?
Was it by magic or something?
Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.
Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting.
You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations.
The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them.
And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves.
War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed.
Not the other way around.
Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead.
And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded.
And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed.
Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

Quote:

So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine.
One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan.
And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel.
And they were trounced.
Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain.
And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear?

This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from

Good video.
However, the past remains the past, and the Jews will no longer live under the rule of the caliphates.
The problem began way back when with the UN promising the region of Palestine as the Jewish Homeland, and whether it was right or wrong to do so is irrelevant.
Foreign armies invaded the day after Israel's formation, and the Jews have been on a war footing ever since.
Unfortunately, we don't have a time machine and we can't go back.
The genie is out of the bottle, and it won't ever go back in.
The Jews have had their national homeland recognised by the United Nations for over 60+ years, fought and won four wars to the knife, and is now the most vibrant economy in the Middle East along with being the sole democracy there worth a cracker.
There will be no going back.
Israel will not negotiate whilst the missiles are still being fired off into Israel as no country would negotiate under those circumstances.
The ceasefire that was signed 2 months ago was broken the following day by Hamas as they have broken every single cease fire they ever signed.
It is always the Israeli's that have to bend and give, and I suspect they are sick and tired of doing that.
Appeasement does have such a poor record in history.
The only realistic option left in 2012 is for Jordan to up their current Palestinian population from it's current 60%.
The Jews will never give up their claim to Palestine.
They believe it was promised to them from God, and whether we choose to believe that is irrelevant.
They believe it.
And three wars were unsuccessfully fought against the Romans by Jewish armies in Judea fighting for independence from Rome in the first and second century AD, and their blood is still in the sand today.
King David was the King of Israel thousands of years ago, and these peoples centuries old link with this land cannot be denied.
They have the strongest, most experienced and battle tested army in the entire middle east, and nearly every citizen of an age serves in the military as did their father and mother, and their father and mother before them did.
They have built cities out of the sand where nothing stood before , they have built industries from the ground up which export goods around the world.
In fact, your PC probably has Israeli parts in it, along with many medications available in our chemists are made there.
And they are not leaving.
And if the Arab League want to go for round five, the IDF stands ready.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106219 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #119 - Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:46am Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:06am: Not much, Bobby. That's the point isn't it? The Jews have done to others what was done to them. Gaza is Warsaw.
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