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Israel finally declared terrorist state (Read 25657 times)
Avram Horowitz
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #195 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:43pm:
Avram,
Quote:
Bobby -- no I am not Mossad.
No I do not has concerns of speak to them when I go back.
I has say nothing that is outlawed from my papers I sign at national services.



OK - I was just getting a little suspicious of you.
It must be paranoia on my part.
It just seemed a little contrived that you turned up here -
but I take it back -
you have done what you believe is right & I am sure
I would have done the same in your position -
to defend my country.


Can you refuse military service in Israel? -
maybe do a job such as a medic helping wounded instead? -
or - do you have to fire a rifle?



Hi bobby no you can not refuse to do national services.
Orthodox Jews does not serve as they has long agreement to not do so,,

You can defer services for studies, I did so but you must serve men and women,

For many like I is proud to do so.

Yes you must fire weapons as when you is near the Palestinian border points you will have need to as they can be violent to we.
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Bobby.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #196 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 9:44pm
 
Hi Avram,
That's not a fair policy if someone doesn't want to shoot a rifle
but wants to drive a truck or be a mechanic or maybe a medic.
That means some people are forced to kill.
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #197 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:25pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 7:06pm:
Please Enid. Even Mossad couldn't possibly be that hard up.


Everyone, here is a recount which is known by many Israeli --


The man known to Mossad as "The Engineer" ( Yihyeh Ayyash) was a top Hamas bomb-maker. He lived on the West Bank, protected by gunmen.

One day he received a visitor - a distant cousin from Gaza. The young man spoke like so many from that hotbed of Islamic fanaticism.

Over mint tea, the two men spoke far into the evening. Finally, The Engineer invited his guest to stay over. The offer was accepted. The young man asked if he could use The Engineer's mobile phone to call his own family to say they should not worry.

He asked if he could make the call from outside the house to improve reception. The Engineer nodded. The call over, the two men fell asleep on the floor.

Next day, the young man left to return to Gaza. That morning, The Engineer received a call on the mobile. As he put the phone to his mouth and started to speak, his head was blown off.

The young man had planted a powerful explosive inside the phone. The detonation signal had come from a kidon half a mile away.

No one had seen him arrive. No one saw him go.

There are good secret service agencies, there are excellent secret services agencies, and then there is the MOSSAD.
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MOTR
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #198 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:01am
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 9:11pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:43pm:
Avram,
Quote:
Bobby -- no I am not Mossad.
No I do not has concerns of speak to them when I go back.
I has say nothing that is outlawed from my papers I sign at national services.



OK - I was just getting a little suspicious of you.
It must be paranoia on my part.
It just seemed a little contrived that you turned up here -
but I take it back -
you have done what you believe is right & I am sure
I would have done the same in your position -
to defend my country.


Can you refuse military service in Israel? -
maybe do a job such as a medic helping wounded instead? -
or - do you have to fire a rifle?



Hi bobby no you can not refuse to do national services.
Orthodox Jews does not serve as they has long agreement to not do so,,

You can defer services for studies, I did so but you must serve men and women,

For many like I is proud to do so.

Yes you must fire weapons as when you is near the Palestinian border points you will have need to as they can be violent to we.



There are some who refuse.

We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, self-sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.


We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty in the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people.


We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides,


We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Occupied Territories destroy all the values that we were raised upon,


We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society,


We, who know that the Territories are not a part of Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated,


We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.


We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.


We hereby declare that we shall continue serving the Israel Defense Force in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.


The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.

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Bobby.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #199 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:03am
 
That's not a very nice story Avram.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #200 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:05am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:03am:
That's not a very nice story Avram.

You would prefer the story of many deaths and injuries created by this bomber time and time again?
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #201 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:09am
 
So- some people do have the courage to refuse.


http://www.seruv.org.il/english/movement.asp


Quote:
Over 280 Members of Courage to Refuse have in fact been court martialed and jailed for periods of up to 35 days as a result of their refusal.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #202 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:10am
 
Anathema wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:05am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:03am:
That's not a very nice story Avram.

You would prefer the story of many deaths and injuries created by this bomber time and time again?



Who said the target of the assassination was guilty?
- a court of law?
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #203 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:23am
 
When the bombers country doesn't play by the rules what do you expect?

You are very naive Bobby
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #204 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:36am
 
Anathema wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:23am:
When the bombers country doesn't play by the rules what do you expect?

You are very naive Bobby 



You're the naive one mate:
They also get the wrong guy sometimes &
other people as collateral damage.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #205 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:42am
 
How many people and kids do you want to see blown up while they establish a case that is able to be prosecuted?

I say again, you are naive and a useful idiot
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #206 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 1:59am
 
Anathema wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:42am:
How many people and kids do you want to see blown up while they establish a case that is able to be prosecuted?

I say again, you are naive and a useful idiot



OK James Bond - with a license to kill.
You've been watching too many movies.
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #207 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 7:45am
 
Anathema wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:42am:
How many people and kids do you want to see blown up while they establish a case that is able to be prosecuted?

I say again, you are naive and a useful idiot


Bobby - he was well know to Israel as guilty of building many bombs.



Ayyash built the bombs used in a number of Hamas suicide attacks: the Mehola Junction bombing, the Afula Bus massacre, the Hadera central station massacre, the Tel Aviv bus 5 massacre, the Egged bus 36 bombing, the Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing, and the Jerusalem bus 26 bombing. As part of a strategic alliance between Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Ayyash built the bombs used by Islamic Jihad at the Beit Lid massacre.

Because TNT and other high explosives were generally not available in the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and Gaza strip), Ayyash often used a combination of acetone and detergent, both commonly available household products. When combined, they form acetone peroxide, an explosive known as "Mother of Satan" for its instability.

The Militant, an international communist newsweekly, reported that "100,000 Palestinians... attended the funeral".

The State of Israel has a policy that it never confirms or denies its participation in selective assassinations. Per this policy, Israel did not confirm or deny its role in killing Ayyash.



Following Ayyash's death by the MOSSAD in February and March 1996, four suicide bombings killed over 60 Israelis.

The first of these took place shortly after the end of the 40 day mourning period for Ayyash and the cell that claimed responsibility called itself "Disciples of the martyr Yahya 'Ayyash", stating it was a revenge attack for his assassination. Israeli security services who later interrogated one of the organizers of the attacks said they were carried out by a sub-group of the Qassam Brigades, and that, "the attacks were most probably a direct reaction to the assassination of 'Ayyash [with] no far-reaching political goal."
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Bobby.
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #208 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 8:47am
 
Avram,
Why didn't they put him on trial & then hang him
in the city square of Tel Aviv with sign around his neck saying
" murderer ".
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #209 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 8:52am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 8:47am:
Avram,
Why didn't they put him on trial & then hang him
in the city square of Tel Aviv with sign around his neck saying
" murderer ".



Bobby the policy of Israel -- which has support of many Israeli, me inclusive -- is that arrests and trials of terror Muslim suspects to happen first.

But if is too difficult and dangerous to do this -- many times is so because they is in Gaza, West Bank or even places outside in Muslim country where we can not go - then policy is to target removal by either IDF or Mossad or both.

This is more safe and less life deaths cost because is targetted.

But you must also be told that this is not just army decide -- this must has approval from highest level of authority in Jerusalem to be allow to happen.

Target removal was approve and made legal by Supreme Court decision.
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