Australian Politics Forum - Israel finally declared terrorist state

Brendon

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #30 - Mar 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

This is silly question,

You can sit in your house in Australia 1000's of km away and make judgment of decisions for life endanger times.
If you are young man in aus you are lucky and live in peace and easy life.

Me I has been 2 years be shoot at by palestinians in Hebron, be rocks throw to me, also be in Gaza in cast lead all real live not like sit home.

But you know since I study in Australia I can see how lucky is for you to have country with no problem and no aggressor. You are very lucky,, we do not have this,

We must fight to keep country and israel safe.

Always must we be wary,,

We really need someone who has been sitting in a house in Gaza to give a complete account, eh?

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MOTR

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #31 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:39am

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side.

Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice.

Quote:

“Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.”

“There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said.

“I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old.

“The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said.

Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected.

Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #32 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:51am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Quote:

People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

There is no wriggling out of these one.
He said it plain and simple
Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists

You logic escapes all reality.
Children have died accidently in wars since time began.

He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme.

This is about what avram said
Also,
do you believe the world is 10,000 years old dipshyt?

You will come out looking less of a goose if you spent more time understanding the meaning of what is being said, rather than hanging off every word and interpreting your own meanings to the words only.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #33 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:56am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:57pm:

i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel.

i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist.

In IDF we does not do this.

But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me.

Here is a scenario:
You have 3 people infront of you.
1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right.
You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time).

Do you shoot?

That depends on what the terrorist has in his hands at the time, and his intentions eh.
If he is handing a Mars bar to the kid, and a Caramello to the woman well there isn't a problem.
If however, he is about to launch another missile, one of many across the wall into Sderot to terrorise other innocent women and children, well he gets a 7.62mm in the skull for his troubles eh.
One less dead maggot in the world.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #34 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:06am

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:39am:

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side.

Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice.

Quote:

“Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.”

“There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said.

“I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old.

“The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said.

Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected.

Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him.

The Italian writes crap.
Israeli's do not return fire to scare people.
They return fire to kill people.
Every mortar and missile crew that sent their weapons off in the direction of Sderot during Operation Cast Lead scarpered like the cowards they are leaving the women and children standing where they were gathered.
Why, because the mortar and missiles received return fire back to the point of origin.
As for hospitals, perhaps if the grounds weren't being used as firing points, or as weapons storage sites they wouldn't have been targeted.
Gazan residents were calling IDF headquarters in Israel during Operation Cast Lead to give them the precise location of terrorist missile and mortar crew for the IDF to eliminate.
Yes, Hamas is so popular.
During their last election, Fatah supporters were being kneecapped in the streets or thrown off the rooftop of buildings.
They rule their own via terror.
And they deserve what they get in return.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #35 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:39am:

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side.

Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice.

Quote:

“Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.”

“There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said.

“I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old.

“The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said.

Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected.

Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him.

1) I was not part of a occupying force. I was stand on checkpoint INTO Israel from the Palestinian control territory when we has shots fired to us from inside Palestinian control.

2) These shots is come from apartment buildings and you can see children playing in bottom of the apartments -- so tell me where is the care for the children when they know this will cause IDF response to area.

3) We does not immediate respond because as i say we can see childrens in the area. Instead call on phone to Tel Aviv and say the situation.

4) Rocks come throw to our position on checkpoint from teens - so tell me how you would respond to this? You go and ask nice for them to stop? You know also can be trap to us to bring us into line of fire from the apartments?

Like i say before, you sit in a house 1,000 kms from this and in a country which has peace and you tell us how we must behave?

Maybe you come and spend 2 weeks with us on the national services and see how we have to be in these situations.

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #36 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:09pm
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bobbythefap1

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #37 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:25pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:51am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Quote:

People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

There is no wriggling out of these one.
He said it plain and simple
Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists

You logic escapes all reality.
Children have died accidently in wars since time began.

He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme.

This is about what avram said
Also,
do you believe the world is 10,000 years old dipshyt?

You will come out looking less of a goose if you spent more time understanding the meaning of what is being said, rather than hanging off every word and interpreting your own meanings to the words only.

Quote:

People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

Sorry but that says exactly what it does and nothing you say or I say can change what it says

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #38 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:25pm Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:09pm: http://www.oneangryman.com/ken/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/military-spending.jpg They are definitely being aggressive.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #39 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:40pm Avram, aren't most of the checkpoints within the West Bank. In 2010 there were 99 fixed check points within the West Bank.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state
Reply #40 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:43pm

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

Avram, aren't most of the checkpoints within the West Bank. In 2010 there were 99 fixed check points within the West Bank.

Yes most checkpoints is in this area but remember there is Jewish settlements which must be protect.

We must be sure that non-Jews does not enter these areas to cause problems.

Checkpoints is there for every one security both Arab and Israeli.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #41 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:47pm You're talking about illegal Jewish settlements within the occupied territories.
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #42 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:01pm MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:47pm: You're talking about illegal Jewish settlements within the occupied territories. I am sorry, we do not see it like this.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #43 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:03pm You might not, but that is the way they are seen by the Palestinians.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Israel finally declared terrorist state Reply #44 - Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:06pm “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” - Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 And by international law.
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