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24/7 school zone fines anyone? (Read 7789 times)
Frances
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24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:28pm
 
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School zones should be enforced up to 24 hours a day with even higher penalties for speeding, the NSW government has been urged by its own road-safety inquiry. In a report commissioned by Roads Minister Duncan Gay and obtained the NSW Parliament's Staysafe Committee will this week recommend sweeping changes, following a six-month inquiry into the 40km/h school zones. The joint standing committee, which is run by Liberal MP Greg Aplin and Nationals upper house MP Rick Colless, says the government should consider increasing the number of hours school zones are in operation across the state.

Any move to add more hours of operation of school zones as well as fines will be met with fierce opposition by motorists because one of the government's most popular election pledges was to reduce the number of revenue-raising speed cameras.

School zones with a 40km/h speed limit operate from 8.30am to 9.30am in the morning and 2.30pm to 4pm in the afternoon outside more than 3000 schools. But the Staysafe report cites examples from the ACT, where school zones are enforced for eight hours a day and South Australia, which has a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week regime.

Raphael Grzebieta, professor of road safety at UNSW's Transport and Road Safety Research unit, said the government should make school zones 24 hours and look at reducing speeds in school zones from 40km to 30km/h. "Even at 40km we are travelling at 10km faster than Europe," he said. "It's a matter of saving lives or allowing people to travel at speeds which are dangerous to our children." The report also recommends increasing fines for school zones, which are already at least $60 more than normal speeding fines, to pay for a rollout of flashing lights in all school zones.

It also calls on the government to increase enforcement in school zones, with many still not having fixed cameras. Mr Gay said he could not comment on the 19 recommendations because he was yet to receive the report. But he said he would "closely examine" all of them. Harold Scruby, chairman of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, said the recommendations were "wonderful" but said motorists would reject 24-hour zones. "You have to balance safety with mobility, so 12-hour speed zones, seven days a week, would be more acceptable," Mr Scruby said.

NRMA president Wendy Machin said the state's motorists were sick of being used as "cash cows" for state government projects. "Motorists already feel a strong sense of entrapment about school zones," she said. "We would be disappointed should Duncan Gay move to introduce any of these recommendations." The government earns about $60 million each year in fines for school zone speeding.


http://www.news.com.au/national/report-calls-for-24-7-school-zone-fines/story-e6...

I concede that there might be some justification for increasing the hours of school zone operation maybe by about half an hour or so, but 24/7?  Surely that's nothing but blatant revenue raising.  Is there any need for a 40km/h limit around schools at 2am on a Sunday morning for example?  And there's the effect that this would have on Sydney's traffic flow.  How many school zones are in 80km/h limited roads?  Quite a lot.

Hopefully reason (and the will for political survival) will triumph and this proposal will not be implemented.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #1 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:29pm
 
If kids are going to their school at midnight I think the police should be talking to them not drivers
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #2 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:35pm
 
A stupid rule brought about by a stupid government intent on being seen to doing something.

NSW is basically in recession and this is all Barry can come up with ?

If Gillard did the same thing there would be howls from every wolf in town.   

NSW lacks a decent opposition.   Look what you are in for QLD.
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #3 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:40pm
 
Frances wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:28pm:
Quote:
School zones should be enforced up to 24 hours a day with even higher penalties for speeding, the NSW government has been urged by its own road-safety inquiry. In a report commissioned by Roads Minister Duncan Gay and obtained the NSW Parliament's Staysafe Committee will this week recommend sweeping changes, following a six-month inquiry into the 40km/h school zones. The joint standing committee, which is run by Liberal MP Greg Aplin and Nationals upper house MP Rick Colless, says the government should consider increasing the number of hours school zones are in operation across the state.

Any move to add more hours of operation of school zones as well as fines will be met with fierce opposition by motorists because one of the government's most popular election pledges was to reduce the number of revenue-raising speed cameras.

School zones with a 40km/h speed limit operate from 8.30am to 9.30am in the morning and 2.30pm to 4pm in the afternoon outside more than 3000 schools. But the Staysafe report cites examples from the ACT, where school zones are enforced for eight hours a day and South Australia, which has a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week regime.

Raphael Grzebieta, professor of road safety at UNSW's Transport and Road Safety Research unit, said the government should make school zones 24 hours and look at reducing speeds in school zones from 40km to 30km/h. "Even at 40km we are travelling at 10km faster than Europe," he said. "It's a matter of saving lives or allowing people to travel at speeds which are dangerous to our children." The report also recommends increasing fines for school zones, which are already at least $60 more than normal speeding fines, to pay for a rollout of flashing lights in all school zones.

It also calls on the government to increase enforcement in school zones, with many still not having fixed cameras. Mr Gay said he could not comment on the 19 recommendations because he was yet to receive the report. But he said he would "closely examine" all of them. Harold Scruby, chairman of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, said the recommendations were "wonderful" but said motorists would reject 24-hour zones. "You have to balance safety with mobility, so 12-hour speed zones, seven days a week, would be more acceptable," Mr Scruby said.

NRMA president Wendy Machin said the state's motorists were sick of being used as "cash cows" for state government projects. "Motorists already feel a strong sense of entrapment about school zones," she said. "We would be disappointed should Duncan Gay move to introduce any of these recommendations." The government earns about $60 million each year in fines for school zone speeding.


http://www.news.com.au/national/report-calls-for-24-7-school-zone-fines/story-e6...

I concede that there might be some justification for increasing the hours of school zone operation maybe by about half an hour or so, but 24/7?  Surely that's nothing but blatant revenue raising.  Is there any need for a 40km/h limit around schools at 2am on a Sunday morning for example?  And there's the effect that this would have on Sydney's traffic flow.  How many school zones are in 80km/h limited roads?  Quite a lot.

Hopefully reason (and the will for political survival) will triumph and this proposal will not be implemented.



I don't see any justification for them to exist at all, let alone be expanded.  The overwhelming majority of kids will arrive and leave school within 15 minutes of each other.  Only small groups, outliers of eggheads and delinquents arrive outside this window.
Of course theres the elephant in the room though - kids (including high school students) should know how to cross a bloody road.  If they don't know by the time they start school, let alone high school, they're living on borrowed time already.  Someone so incompetent that they can't cross a road without slowing traffic to a crawl (and primary schools on main roads usually have crossing guards too) is going to fall prey to their own stupidity sooner rather than later. 

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Frances
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #4 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:41pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:29pm:
If kids are going to their school at midnight I think the police should be talking to them not drivers


If kids are going to their school at midnight, they probably are carrying an armful of aerosol cans of paint....
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #5 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:43pm
 
24/7 wouldn't bother me in the slightest, although 12/7 is probably more realistic: 7am to 7pm, Monday to Sunday.

Some schools have after hours child minding facilities, which stay open until about 6pm. 

Also, many schools have after hours events that sometimes go well beyong 6pm (band practice, meetings, school socials, sporting events, etc.).

Plus, lots of kids play on school ovals on the weekend so speed restrictions on Saturday and Sunday are justified (even though the kids shouldn't actually be there in the first place).

As far as revenue raising goes, I'm all for it.  I have no problem with my local police force being cashed up, and as long as I don't break the law I don't have to make a contribution.

Probably worth lowering the speed to 30kph too.  That way the drivers will probably cut their speed down to about 50.
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #6 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm
 
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?
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bobbythefap1
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:53pm
 
Frances wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:41pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:29pm:
If kids are going to their school at midnight I think the police should be talking to them not drivers


If kids are going to their school at midnight, they probably are carrying an armful of aerosol cans of paint....

Whatever happened to toilet paper
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Uncle Meat
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #8 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:55pm
 
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?


Finding their own way is fine.  Let them walk to school and learn to negotiate traffic.  No problem with that.

However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph.

Plus, their peripheral vision isn't as developed as an adult's.

Slowing the cars down to give the kids a better chance, while "finding their own way", is fine by me.


(I always do 30 in school zones anyway)

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:58pm
 
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?


Finding their own way is fine.  Let them walk to school and learn to negotiate traffic.  No problem with that.

However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph.

Plus, their peripheral vision isn't as developed as an adult's.

Slowing the cars down to give the kids a better chance, while "finding their own way", is fine by me.


(I always do 30 in school zones anyway)


What if the child was extremley obese?
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #10 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:59pm
 
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?


Finding their own way is fine.  Let them walk to school and learn to negotiate traffic.  No problem with that.

However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph.

Plus, their peripheral vision isn't as developed as an adult's.

Slowing the cars down to give the kids a better chance, while "finding their own way", is fine by me.


(I always do 30 in school zones anyway)




Neither does a 120kg man.  The trick is not to get hit....

never had school zones when I was a kid.  Total number of people bowled over outside school throughout the whole 12 years = nil...Though one did get bowled by a train.   Sad
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #11 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:09pm
 
Anyone ever been infuriated by no-good-punk-teenagers who wander in the middle of the road, as though saying "I dare you to hit me"?

I have several times, and I blame the advent of school zones.  They just don't seem to grasp the concept of no-good-punk-teenager vs car = car wins.  We owe it to our children to teach them this very important lesson, to save them many problems in the future.
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #12 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:10pm
 
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:59pm:
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?


Finding their own way is fine.  Let them walk to school and learn to negotiate traffic.  No problem with that.

However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph.

Plus, their peripheral vision isn't as developed as an adult's.

Slowing the cars down to give the kids a better chance, while "finding their own way", is fine by me.


(I always do 30 in school zones anyway)




Neither does a 120kg man.  The trick is not to get hit....

never had school zones when I was a kid.  Total number of people bowled over outside school throughout the whole 12 years = nil...Though one did get bowled by a train.   Sad



A grown man's vision is fully developed, they are between 5 and 6 feet tall, and they usually have several years experience negotiating traffic.

Children need to develop their skills.  Slowing down the traffic to give them a fighting chance is no big deal.

"AT least one child will be hit by a car in a school zone today, according to frightening statistics revealed by the NSW Ambulance Service. "

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/school-zones-threat-to-children...
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #13 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:14pm
 
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:10pm:
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:59pm:
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:46pm:
I mean, I know everyone wants to keep their kids safe, but is the best way to do that to wrap them in cotton wool, or to help them find their own way?


Finding their own way is fine.  Let them walk to school and learn to negotiate traffic.  No problem with that.

However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph.

Plus, their peripheral vision isn't as developed as an adult's.

Slowing the cars down to give the kids a better chance, while "finding their own way", is fine by me.


(I always do 30 in school zones anyway)




Neither does a 120kg man.  The trick is not to get hit....

never had school zones when I was a kid.  Total number of people bowled over outside school throughout the whole 12 years = nil...Though one did get bowled by a train.   Sad



A grown man's vision is fully developed, they are between 5 and 6 feet tall, and they usually have several years experience negotiating traffic.

Children need to develop their skills.  Slowing down the traffic to give them a fighting chance is no big deal.

"AT least one child will be hit by a car in a school zone today, according to frightening statistics revealed by the NSW Ambulance Service. "

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/school-zones-threat-to-children...



What about high schools?  Don't you think a high school student should be able to negotiate a road?
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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #14 - Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:18pm
 
Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:43pm:
24/7 wouldn't bother me in the slightest, although 12/7 is probably more realistic: 7am to 7pm, Monday to Sunday.

Some schools have after hours child minding facilities, which stay open until about 6pm. 

Also, many schools have after hours events that sometimes go well beyong 6pm (band practice, meetings, school socials, sporting events, etc.).

Plus, lots of kids play on school ovals on the weekend so speed restrictions on Saturday and Sunday are justified (even though the kids shouldn't actually be there in the first place).

As far as revenue raising goes, I'm all for it.  I have no problem with my local police force being cashed up, and as long as I don't break the law I don't have to make a contribution.

Probably worth lowering the speed to 30kph too.  That way the drivers will probably cut their speed down to about 50.


Yep, I agree. At the very minimum it should be during school holidays and on weekends as well. How many people who don't have school aged children are aware when the first term goes back after 6 weeks of not having to slow down?

The flashing lights are a great idea. No revenue will be raised if people do the right thing and slow down near schools.
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