Australian Politics Forum - 24/7 school zone fines anyone?

red baron

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #45 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 10:22am

24/7 is ridiculous in school zones. Other than the nominated time these areas are devoid of children. I am kids' strongest supporter but surely this is overkill.

I was an expert in traffic accident for 7 years of my Police Service and have investigated literally thousands of accidents and their causes.

I can tell you that the biggest problem is the person behind the wheel, who generally exceeds the speed limit everywhere they go.

Try driving home where it isn't a traffic jam and see if you can do the limit, you will be run over by the others if you don't kick it at least 10 k's per hour.

I do believe the flashing lights and VERY HIGH VISUAL sign posting, is the way to go with school zones. A number of schools have this in the Penrith Valley and Blue Mountains area. Those ones I have noticed get much greater driver awareness and a subsequent slowing to the 40K limit. Also speed cameras on school zones would work, in select locations.

But 24/7 I am telling you now if it did come in, drivers would just get slack about it. Familiarity breeds contempt.

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Uncle Meat

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #46 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 11:20am

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Do you think we could go back to teaching the kids to look before crossing the road, is that too much to ask?

No, not too much to ask at all, however, I wasn't aware that they had actually stopped teaching that to children.

And, even if they do still teach them to look before crossing the road (which I'm pretty sure they do), a child's peripheral vision is not as good as an adults.

24/7 may be too much, however, 7am to 7pm on weekdays should be the minimum plus a reduction to 30kph.

"It is important to remember that children are not just small adults. Children are developing physically and mentally and have many characteristics that make them vulnerable near traffic.

Vision: A young child's peripheral vision is about two-thirds of adult’s. Children may not have the ability to see a car or obstacle that the adult next to them sees.

Hearing: Children have acute hearing, but have difficulty localizing sound. This means that they have difficulty determining the direction from which a sound is coming. Children may be unaware that the sound of a vehicle they hear is moving towards them."

http://www.preventioninstitute.sk.ca/child-injury-prevention/bike-wheel-safety/c...

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Baronvonrort

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #47 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Do you think we could go back to teaching the kids to look before crossing the road, is that too much to ask?

No, not too much to ask at all, however, I wasn't aware that they had actually stopped teaching that to children.

And, even if they do still teach them to look before crossing the road (which I'm pretty sure they do), a child's peripheral vision is not as good as an adults.

24/7 may be too much, however, 7am to 7pm on weekdays should be the minimum plus a reduction to 30kph.

"It is important to remember that children are not just small adults. Children are developing physically and mentally and have many characteristics that make them vulnerable near traffic.

Vision: A young child's peripheral vision is about two-thirds of adult’s. Children may not have the ability to see a car or obstacle that the adult next to them sees.

Hearing: Children have acute hearing, but have difficulty localizing sound. This means that they have difficulty determining the direction from which a sound is coming. Children may be unaware that the sound of a vehicle they hear is moving towards them."

http://www.preventioninstitute.sk.ca/child-injury-prevention/bike-wheel-safety/c...

This document shows the flaws with childrens peripheral vision being less than an adult as you claimed.
The leftists grab any feel good article that is lacking in truth to back their position.

http://www.ciop.pl/9875

If you said asians have less peripheral vision due to...... i might believe that.

If they still told kids to look before crossing the road we might not have to slow eveyone down when there are no kids in sight near schools.

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Uncle Meat

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #48 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:34pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

If they still told kids to look before crossing the road we might not have to slow eveyone down when there are no kids in sight near schools.

You've mentioned this twice now.

Where are you getting this information from? Who says that kids are not being told to look before crossing the road ?

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:42pm by Uncle Meat »

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Frances Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3577 In a Castle in the Hills Gender:	Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone? Reply #49 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:40pm It would be interesting too if Baronvonrort could enlighten us on how "leftists" are involved in either the introduction of school zones or the proposal to extend their hours of operation.
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...

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #50 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:47pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

If they still told kids to look before crossing the road we might not have to slow eveyone down when there are no kids in sight near schools.

You've mentioned this twice now.

Where are you getting this information from? Who says that kids are not being told to look before crossing the road ?

Well if they are being taught to look first, we wouldn't need school zones.

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In the fullness of time...

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Uncle Meat

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #51 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:55pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Do you think we could go back to teaching the kids to look before crossing the road, is that too much to ask?

I'm not aware of any kids who aren't taught that.

http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Internet/Primary/road+safety/school+progr...

http://www.kidsandtraffic.mq.edu.au/

"Check out our 2012 calendar of Kids and Traffic professional development workshops for NSW early childhood services in the greater metropolitan area.

If your children's service would like to host a Kids and Traffic workshop in your area, please just contact us. We're also planning lots of country trips this year so watch our website for details!"

"While holding their hands ask them to
help you look and listen for vehicles before
crossing the road and until you are both safely
on the other side."

http://www.kidsandtraffic.mq.edu.au/docs/StartingSchoolSafelyLeaflet.pdf

"Challenges and Choices is a suite of 3 teaching resources for Kindergarten to Year 10, including an early childhood, middle childhood and early adolescence kit. The 3 multi-media Challenges and Choices kits focus on age-appropriate road safety issues as well as social skills and positive attitudes and behaviours. All schools in Western Australia have received a free Challenges and Choices kit, supported by professional learning programs, delivered by SDERA across the state."

http://www.ors.wa.gov.au/Demographic-Pages/I-am-a-Parent/Children-Road-Safety-Pr...

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Uncle Meat

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #52 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:56pm

... wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:47pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

If they still told kids to look before crossing the road we might not have to slow eveyone down when there are no kids in sight near schools.

You've mentioned this twice now.

Where are you getting this information from? Who says that kids are not being told to look before crossing the road ?

Well if they are being taught to look first, we wouldn't need school zones.

Your ignorance on this subject is, quite frankly, astounding.

You don't have children, do you? Roll Eyes

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blackadder

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #53 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:00pm

Frances wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 10:09am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

It must have been a leftist who imposed this nonsense on us.

School zones were introduced in 1992. I don't know the exact date, but that would have been when the coalition government of either Nick Greiner or John Fahey was in power. You're not suggesting that they are "leftists" are you?

School zones were introduced to NSW in December 2002 to reduce the chance of fatalities in school areas.

http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2009/04/28/school-zones%E2%80%93have-you...

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FriYAY Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7395	Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone? Reply #54 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:40pm Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:55pm: However, a 40kg kid doesn't stand much chance against an SUV doing 60kph. What a stupid thing to say, like a 40kg kid will be fine if it gets smashed by a Mini doing 60kph? Looks out kids! Oh, it's OK it's not an SUV, out you go.
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Frances

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #55 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:48pm

blackadder wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:00pm:

School zones were introduced to NSW in December 2002 to reduce the chance of fatalities in school areas.

Well, we seem to have a few different dates to choose from:

The Audit Office of New South Wales says 1992
http://auditofficestaging.elcom.com.au/ArticleDocuments/142/197_Improving_Road_S...

The RTA (or RMS as it is now known) says 1992
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/speedandspeedcameras/40kmhcbdspeedlimit/ind...

The Staysafe Committee says it was 1992
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/committee.nsf/0/a5596114ae83a5aac...

The NRMA says 2002
http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/tag/nsw-government/

The NRMA also says it was 2003
http://www.mynrma.com.au/images/About-PDF/NRMA-submission-NSW-Audit-Office-Schoo...

It seems that school zones were actually introduced in July of 1992, under John Fahey's coalition government (although it was only shortly after Fahey became Premier, so all the preparatory work for this would probably have been undertaken when Nick Greiner was Premier). It was not at that stage applied to all schools, but was done at the request of the school or school community and, slightly later, also by local council traffic committees. It was not until 2001 that the then Minister for Roads, Carl Scully implemented a 40kmh limit around all schools.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #56 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:06pm

Frances wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:48pm:

blackadder wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 3:00pm:

School zones were introduced to NSW in December 2002 to reduce the chance of fatalities in school areas.

Well, we seem to have a few different dates to choose from:

The Audit Office of New South Wales says 1992
http://auditofficestaging.elcom.com.au/ArticleDocuments/142/197_Improving_Road_S...

The RTA (or RMS as it is now known) says 1992
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/speedandspeedcameras/40kmhcbdspeedlimit/ind...

The Staysafe Committee says it was 1992
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/committee.nsf/0/a5596114ae83a5aac...

The NRMA says 2002
http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/tag/nsw-government/

The NRMA also says it was 2003
http://www.mynrma.com.au/images/About-PDF/NRMA-submission-NSW-Audit-Office-Schoo...

It seems that school zones were actually introduced in July of 1992, under John Fahey's coalition government (although it was only shortly after Fahey became Premier, so all the preparatory work for this would probably have been undertaken when Nick Greiner was Premier). It was not at that stage applied to all schools, but was done at the request of the school or school community and, slightly later, also by local council traffic committees. It was not until 2001 that the then Minister for Roads, Carl Scully implemented a 40kmh limit around all schools.

The NSW labor government did this

Quote:

School zones were first introduced in July 1992,on a selective basis at the request of a local school or school community.

In 2001,the minister for roads Carl Scully MP ,announced the general implementation of 40 kmh speed limits on roads providing access to schools leading to the establishment of 10,000 school zones servicing all 3154 schools by 2003

Yep i was right it was a leftist who imposed this on us.

The speed camera outside of a private high school on Cleveland st Moore Park is one of the states biggest revenue raisers.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #57 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:14pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:55pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Do you think we could go back to teaching the kids to look before crossing the road, is that too much to ask?

I'm not aware of any kids who aren't taught that.

http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Internet/Primary/road+safety/school+progr...

http://www.kidsandtraffic.mq.edu.au/

"Check out our 2012 calendar of Kids and Traffic professional development workshops for NSW early childhood services in the greater metropolitan area.

If your children's service would like to host a Kids and Traffic workshop in your area, please just contact us. We're also planning lots of country trips this year so watch our website for details!"

"While holding their hands ask them to
help you look and listen for vehicles before
crossing the road and until you are both safely
on the other side."

http://www.kidsandtraffic.mq.edu.au/docs/StartingSchoolSafelyLeaflet.pdf

"Challenges and Choices is a suite of 3 teaching resources for Kindergarten to Year 10, including an early childhood, middle childhood and early adolescence kit. The 3 multi-media Challenges and Choices kits focus on age-appropriate road safety issues as well as social skills and positive attitudes and behaviours. All schools in Western Australia have received a free Challenges and Choices kit, supported by professional learning programs, delivered by SDERA across the state."

http://www.ors.wa.gov.au/Demographic-Pages/I-am-a-Parent/Children-Road-Safety-Pr...

Do you think you could provide links that show a little more than asking parents to hold the kids hand while crossing the road?

What if the parent has to start work before school starts who is going to hold the kids hand?

A leftist in Perth gives a link for victoria as if that applies in WA or NSW.

Everyday in Primary school the teacher would tell us to look before crossing the road, we had a deaf kid in my class how does listening for traffic help the deaf.

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone? Reply #58 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:21pm Why dont we use the revenue raised to build bridges or tunnels going over or under these roads?
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Frances

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Re: 24/7 school zone fines anyone?
Reply #59 - Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:28pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:06pm:

Yep i was right it was a leftist who imposed this on us

Depends on what you mean by "imposing this". Looking at what you said earlier in its original context, it's not clear if you were referring to the original imposition of school zones (Liberal), the extension of school zones in 2002 (Labor) or the events of the last week or so.

Looks like it's not happening anyway. It seems that Barry O'Farrell has decided (thankfully, this time) to do nothing.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8441046

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