Australian Politics Forum - Israel and the Palestinians

Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #165 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

This seems to be the attitude of israel.

Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone so they blow up 2 apartment buildings full of families and children.

Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace. Perhaps if israel stops provoking them they will stop. Wow! what a novel idea!

What ?

The INTENT, of moslems ['Palestinians'] firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel, is NOT to harm anyone ???

I don't think so.

IMO, Israel should either surrender eretz Israel to the 'Palestinians', OR, Israel should remove her enemies, those who repeatedly make military attacks upon her, and her citizens.

'Bugger' world opinion.

Israel should defend Israel, and its citizens, from attacks, being made by its enemies.

Israel should severely punish those who repeatedly make military attacks upon her, and her citizens.

Otherwise, the attacks, and the rockets, will continue.

It takes two people to make a peace, between them.

It only takes one, of two people, to engage in warfare.

Where it clearly can, Israel should punish those who make war upon it.i
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

What a fine argument you put forth there! you sure told him!

SOB

Yes, i thought so too.
/sarc off

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #166 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm I have witnessed a gun battle between Fatah and Hamas in Hebron. We kept out of the way and just monitored as it was beyond Israel security and took place in palestinian control zone. I dont know if deaths but red crescent ambulances were called because we monitored the radio traffic. This was 2009.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #167 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:50pm

Quote:

Yes, i thought so too.
/sarc off

So you really didnt think so huh - why do it then?

Quote:

It takes two people to make a peace, between them.

Yes

Quote:

It only takes one, of two people, to engage in warfare.

Where it clearly can, Israel should punish those who make war upon it.

So there is no peace because israel wont stick with an agreement.

SOB

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #168 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:52pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:50pm: [quote] So there is no peace because israel wont stick with an agreement. SOB What agreement was that, numpty?
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #169 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:53pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Quote:

You do not know this?

Well now you mention it I do remember hearing about it and thinking it was just internal politics.I didnt remember. Its just because they are constantly in a state of oppressions and readiness for attack they are way more violent. 2 different political parties like here but they have violence.

*note to others. This is why i prefer to talk to avram. He doesnt insult me as much and actually tells me what it is he thinks i dont know. He got me that time because i forgot about those 2 factions.

Of course avram you didnt answer my questions there. Is there a peace process going on between the 2? From what I remember it was west bank that is trying to start the peace process? Am I right? Yet if I am right they are the very ones you are imposing upon with the bulldozing and building.

Quote:

All they have to do is stop firing rockets, and peace would be pretty much inevitable.

They have stopped many times and israel always does something that causes them to start up again.

The rest of your crap is misrepresenting me again so im ignoring it

Quote:

So, your solution, if i try to murder you, is to let me murder you ???

This seems to be the attitude of israel. Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone so they blow up 2 apartment buildings full of families and children. Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace. Perhaps if israel stops provoking them they will stop. Wow! what a novel idea!

Quote:

YOU CAN GO TO HELL, TOO!

What a fine argument you put forth there! you sure told him!

SOB

The peace process is mainly from West Bank yes because it is with Fatah that we deal.
They are a better representative for the Palestinians.

Fatah talk to Israel, Abbas has his histories yes but he has been a good successor to Arafat.

Arafat was difficult. He has before too much history and blood on his hands for a lot of us Israelis but we could work with him in the end.

Hamas - no. Their behavior to Israel is aggressive, they are not moderate in their views and they have end destruction of Israel as their goal.

It is much more hard to deal with them. This is why we deal with Fatah. If Fatah controls the Gaza too, then it would be better I think. But in some ways they are long way from peace with themselves.

You will not have a united Palestinians Gaza and West Bank with the two of them in control - they have killed each other, they have threaten each other - there is too much past between them for trust.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #170 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?
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Yadda

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #171 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:57pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm:

I have witnessed a gun battle between Fatah and Hamas in Hebron.

We kept out of the way and just monitored as it was beyond Israel security and took place in palestinian control zone.

I dont know if deaths but red crescent ambulances were called because we monitored the radio traffic.

This was 2009.

Avram,

One side was probably running short on ammunition.

Yes ? Wink

[Avram, as an Israeli, you are probably aware that your enemies will use ambulances [which are menat to be kept neutral], for military purposes??? For carrying munitions, and such, yes ???

AND THEN, YOUR ENEMIES WILL ALWAYS SCREAM TO THE WORLD MEDIA, WHEN ISRAEL DESTROYS THOSE MIS-USED NEUTRAL FACILITIES, BEING USED TO FACILITATE THEIR FIGHTING CAPABILITY ? ]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26509 Australia	Re: Israel and the Palestinians Reply #172 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:00pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm: What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of? It was prolly an example. I would have been referring to the ones you told me about. I will answer you tomorrow if I dont get it done today. Sorry running out of time here. SOB
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #173 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:02pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:00pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

It was prolly an example. I would have been referring to the ones you told me about. I will answer you tomorrow if I dont get it done today. Sorry running out of time here.

SOB

I thought it may be the ones I said.

Those apartments buildings were not response to normal rocket fire - but direct attack on my unit and we called in air response in Cast Lead.

It is not same situations.
Very different.

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Soren

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #174 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:09pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:14pm:

Why did the palestinians reject the peace agreement? Could it be because it was unfair? And how long ago was that? Wasnt recently was it. Recently israel has rejected a peace deal because they didnt like it.

Or mebbe because it was unfair - unconditional right of return for all Arabs with the slightest kinship with those who left in 1948.

But I know you don't understand.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #175 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 4:27pm

Okay I didnt have to go out afterall.

Quote:

The peace process is mainly from West Bank yes because it is with Fatah that we deal.
They are a better representative for the Palestinians.

And yet you keep a military presence and build settlements there.

Are the prisoners in yur jail from west bank gaza or both?

Quote:

Hamas - no. Their behavior to Israel is aggressive, they are not moderate in their views and they have end destruction of Israel as their goal.

I am going to look this up again tomorrow but I want your opinions. Why do you say this? What have they said to israel? When did they say it? Long ago or just last week? I cant imagine that 5million ppl are stupid. They know you have much more might than them. They cant hope to take israel. I expect israel is provoking them. Perhaps by refusing to discuss peace or to let the prisoners go.

Quote:

You will not have a united Palestinians Gaza and West Bank with the two of them in control - they have killed each other, they have threaten each other - there is too much past between them for trust.

you just never know if israel plays fairly anything could happen. What do you think will happen?

Quote:

Or mebbe because it was unfair - unconditional right of return for all Arabs with the slightest kinship with those who left in 1948.

We have not addressed that here so far. Its pretty off topic i think but anyway if you are going to make an effort to be civil I will play. Cant we compare that to the displaced aboriginals? Now we are giving them 17% of australia to make up for past injustices. Is israel prepared to make up for past injustices?

Quote:

But I know you don't understand.

Oops. Silly me. Thought you were being civil. Guess you are just too stupid brilliant to be capable.

SOB

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freediver

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #176 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:19pm

Quote:

They have stopped many times and israel always does something that causes them to start up again.

You got it backwards again Spot.

Quote:

This seems to be the attitude of israel. Someone sends a rocket that doesnt kill anyone

Spot, the impotence of the Muslims is not the same thing as being benign. If they don't kill anyone the first time, who is to say they will keep missing? Only an idiot would give them a second chance at it. If someone started shooting at you, would you respond with "It's OK, you missed, no harm no foul"?

Quote:

Disproportionate and not a good way to make peace.

Again Spot, whether it is proportionate depends on the facts, not you making stuff up.

Quote:

What is the 2 apartment buildings incident you are speaking of?

Spot likes to just make it up as he goes along. You are not allowed to ask him about the details or he gets angry with you for tricking him and pestering him over trivial details.

Quote:

It was prolly an example.

You mean, you made it up Spot?

Quote:

I cant imagine that 5million ppl are stupid

.

Quote:

They know you have much more might than them. They cant hope to take israel.

Abu and Falah don't seem to know this, and they should be able to see things fairly objectively from this distance.

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Gist

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #177 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? Angry

It's still completely unacceptable.

Exactly so.

I say; Raze Gaza city to the ground, if it will stop the rockets emanating from Gaza.

If Hamas [which claims to be the governing authority in Gaza], can not stop the rockets, emanating from Gaza [rockets that target and kill Israeli civilians], then imo, it is completely acceptable that the Israelis should do the job for them.

Completely acceptable.

And we all know how efficient the Israelis can be, at permanently 'solving' a problem, when they put their minds to a problem.

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

You've become what you hate. You are arguing that Hitler was quite justified in exterminating Jews. That his death camps were necessary. Do you also wear the swaztika? You may as well.

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Soren

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #178 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Fine. Rockets are launched from apartment buildings so you blow up the buildings knowing that there are innocent civilians in there.

Why stop there? Angry

It's still completely unacceptable.

Exactly so.

I say; Raze Gaza city to the ground, if it will stop the rockets emanating from Gaza.

If Hamas [which claims to be the governing authority in Gaza], can not stop the rockets, emanating from Gaza [rockets that target and kill Israeli civilians], then imo, it is completely acceptable that the Israelis should do the job for them.

Completely acceptable.

And we all know how efficient the Israelis can be, at permanently 'solving' a problem, when they put their minds to a problem.

So wiping out a population is acceptable? Men, women, children, everyone?

That's the Muslimo-fascist objective for Israel. Israel is an actual, real, functioning country. It is a UN member state.

Yet the fascists want it to be obliterated. And you, on the sidelines, are encouraging and facilitating that goal. You fvckers should be ashamed. You are baying for the destruction on a member of the UN.

But you aren't ashamed. If shame smacked you in the forehead you would bloody know what it was.i

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Gist

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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
Reply #179 - Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:47pm

Soren wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

That's the Muslimo-fascist objective for Israel. Israel is an actual, real, functioning country. It is a UN member state.

Yet the fascists want it to be obliterated. And you, on the sidelines, are encouraging and facilitating that goal. You fvckers should be ashamed. You are baying for the destruction on a member of the UN.

But you aren't ashamed. If shame smacked you in the forehead you would bloody know what it was.

No... actually if you care to read what I wrote I think you'd find I was calling for Israelis NOT to become that which they hate. NOT to become terrorists and murderers. NOT to become genocidal maniacs.

But you're so amazingly fookin' thick that of course you fail to understand.

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Question: What should be done about Israel/Palestinians?
Commit genocide on the Palestinians Give Israel back to the British Stop all support for Israel's atrocities Keep going how we are Let Iran Nuke Israel (and Gaza will go to) Two State Solution « Last Modified by: Sir Spot of Borg on: Jun 12^th, 2012 at 9:37am »