Australian Politics Forum - Islam: a pedophile's dream?

Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #105 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:33pm

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

Further, as I keep pointing out, he didn't commit the crime of Paedophilia. Child marriage was common when he was alive.

So having sex with children is not pedophilia if everyone else is doing it? Are you you saying that Muhammed was indeed a pedophile, but not a criminal?

As I keep pointing out, FD you cannot judged events from Arabia, 1400 years ago through a prism of Western modern, 21st Century moral beliefs. Its stupid to do so. Such events cannot be divorced from the individual's milieu, which is essentially what you're attempting to do.

We have no idea what Mohammed's motivations were and the crime of "Paedophilia" depends not only on the act but understanding the motivations behind it as well, as Gandalf keeps pointing out.

Further, we have no idea as to how accurate the stories about these events are. You're asking Mohammed to be judged on what are essentially second or more handed accounts.

Finally, the question comes up, why the endless pursuit of a man who's been dead for 1400 years? Roll Eyes

BTW, FD will you start giving the correct attribution to the comments you're replying to? It's bloody annoying how you mix up messages you're replying to and expect the readers to sort them out and understand them. Roll Eyes

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Aussie

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #106 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:36pm

Sheesh! You still banging on with this crap, freediver?

Quote:

So having sex with children is not pedophilia if everyone else is doing it? Are you you saying that Muhammed was indeed a pedophile, but not a criminal?

It is now ~ it was not then, no matter who else was doing it. I'm not buying your 'Mo the Pedo' argument either. He did what was nothing unusual at the time, so he was neither. You are applying today's standards where they are totally inapplicable.

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freediver

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #107 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:42pm

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As I keep pointing out, FD you cannot judged events from Arabia, 1400 years ago through a prism of Western modern, 21st Century moral beliefs. Its stupid to do so.

Yet that is exactly what you are doing, insisting Muhammed did not "commit the crime of pedophilia". I was merely asking what you meant by this. I hope you were not trying to claim he didn't have sex with children (not that there's anything wrong with that).

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We have no idea what Mohammed's motivations were and the crime of "Paedophilia" depends not only on the act but understanding the motivations behind it as well, as Gandalf keeps pointing out.

So it is legal to have sex with children for the right reason?

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Further, we have no idea as to how accurate the stories about these events are. You're asking Mohammed to be judged on what are essentially second or more handed accounts.

That's what history is all about Brian.

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Finally, the question comes up, why the endless pursuit of a man who's been dead for 1400 years?

Because so many children are suffering today because of him, and so many bend over backwards to apologise for it and deny the link.

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It is now ~ it was not then, no matter who else was doing it. I'm not buying your 'Mo the Pedo' argument either. He did what was nothing unusual at the time, so he was neither. You are applying today's standards where they are totally inapplicable.

Aussie, are you saying that having sex with children is not pedophilia because everyone else was doing it?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #108 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:58pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

It is now ~ it was not then, no matter who else was doing it. I'm not buying your 'Mo the Pedo' argument either. He did what was nothing unusual at the time, so he was neither. You are applying today's standards where they are totally inapplicable.

Mo first wife Khadija was in her 40's and Mo was in his early 20's when they married, it was when he found a sock puppet called Allah he became attracted to the daughter of his neighbor Abu Bakr who was the first convert to Islam.

There is no evidence of any of Muhammad's family marrying children before Mo invented Islam

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream? Reply #109 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:39pm freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:23pm: It's from the article you used Gandalf. Correct - and it says she was wed at age 6, a point that no one disputed Quote: The most logical conclusion from the available evidence is that Muhammed had sex with the little girl before she reached puberty. um no. .
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Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #110 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:41pm

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:42pm:

Quote:

As I keep pointing out, FD you cannot judged events from Arabia, 1400 years ago through a prism of Western modern, 21st Century moral beliefs. Its stupid to do so.

Yet that is exactly what you are doing, insisting Muhammed did not "commit the crime of pedophilia". I was merely asking what you meant by this. I hope you were not trying to claim he didn't have sex with children (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I have no idea if he had sex with children or not, FD. Your entire reasoning is framed in your own moral milieu. You have to first determine what Arabian society 1400 years ago considered a "child". Then you have to determine if that same society believed having sex with them was immoral. Finally you have to determine if it was forbidden by their laws, FD. You've done none of that, all you've done is decided 'cause it's now forbidden and considered immoral and that people under the age of consent today, are to be considered "children", what Mohammed did then was wrong. Roll Eyes

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We have no idea what Mohammed's motivations were and the crime of "Paedophilia" depends not only on the act but understanding the motivations behind it as well, as Gandalf keeps pointing out.

So it is legal to have sex with children for the right reason?

No, today it isn't in Australia to have sex with someone below the age of consent. Your question however, if directed to what Mohammed did 1400 years ago, is pointless, FD. It wasn't illegal, it wasn't even, as far as I can tell, considered immoral - THEN.

If Muslims TODAY, in Australia, attempt to justify doing this through reference to what Mohammed did then, they are acting immorally and illegally according to the laws and milieu of TODAY. They are not exempt from those laws and should be judged accordingly. My concern is with trying to judge some who lived 1400 years ago, in a completely different society by our views TODAY. Roll Eyes

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Further, we have no idea as to how accurate the stories about these events are. You're asking Mohammed to be judged on what are essentially second or more handed accounts.

That's what history is all about Brian.

History is about many things. Occasionally it's about the truth as well, FD.

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Finally, the question comes up, why the endless pursuit of a man who's been dead for 1400 years?

Because so many children are suffering today because of him, and so many bend over backwards to apologise for it and deny the link.

Yet you remain silent about the child brides of India, FD. Roll Eyes

Moreover, how can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago? Roll Eyes

As I keep pointing out, by all means condemn the Muslims of today for their crimes but stop this silly crusade against Mohammed over his marriage to Aisha. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:18pm by Brian Ross »

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream? Reply #111 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:56pm Quote: How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago? Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).
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Datalife Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2405 Gender:	Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream? Reply #112 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:08pm Brian Ross wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:41pm: Moreover, how can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago? Impossible to tell if you are disengenuos or a dill. Probably a combination of both.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #113 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:19pm

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:56pm:

Quote:

How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?

Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

But it is the Muslims of today who commit this crime who must be found guilty of it, Moses, not a man who's been dead 1400 years... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #114 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:19pm:

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:56pm:

Quote:

How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?

Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

But it is the Muslims of today who commit this crime who must be found guilty of it, Moses, not a man who's been dead 1400 years... Roll Eyes

So what is the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia, do they even have one?

Do muslims face Mecca in Saudi Arabia when they tap their heads on the ground with their asses in the air?

Is one of the 5 pillars of Islam called Hajj, where do you go for that is it Saudi Arabia?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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moses

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #115 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:42pm

moses wrote: Quote:

Quote:

How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?

Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

But it is the Muslims of today who commit this crime who must be found guilty of it, Moses, not a man who's been dead 1400 years...

So we've run away from **How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?** and the obvious answer:Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

To: **we must find muslims who commit the crime of raping child brides today, guilty**

YOU apologist's are right on top of it aren't you?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #116 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:07pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:19pm:

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:56pm:

Quote:

How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?

Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

But it is the Muslims of today who commit this crime who must be found guilty of it, Moses, not a man who's been dead 1400 years... Roll Eyes

So what is the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia, do they even have one?

We aren't discussing Saudi Arabia today, Baron but Australia today.

A more pertinent question might be, "what was the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia 1400 years ago?"

I have no idea, I admit. If you can shed any light on it, it would be most welcome.

Of course it raises the question, if they had no minimum age, what did Mohammed do which was illegal or even perhaps immoral by the milieu of the day?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #117 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:11pm

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 5:42pm:

moses wrote: Quote:

Quote:

How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?

Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

But it is the Muslims of today who commit this crime who must be found guilty of it, Moses, not a man who's been dead 1400 years...

So we've run away from **How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?** and the obvious answer:Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

To: **we must find muslims who commit the crime of raping child brides today, guilty**

But, as I've pointed out, Mohammed did not apparently commit any crime then and he definitely did not commit any crime now, so who is to be held responsible for these alleged crimes, Moses?

Why keep pursuing this man long dead except to satisfy your Islamophobic urges? Roll Eyes

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YOU apologist's are right on top of it aren't you?

Where have I "apologised" for anything, Moses?

I am being critical of this crusade against a man who's been dead for 1400 years. I have not made excuses for any crimes committed today, Moses. Roll Eyes

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream? Reply #118 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:35pm Hiding from your question How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago? and the obvious answer: Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).
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Brian Ross

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Re: Islam: a pedophile's dream?
Reply #119 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:38pm

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:35pm:

Hiding from your question **How can children today, suffer because of a man who died 1400 years ago?**

and the obvious answer: Because muslims today invoke the example of muhammad as their vindication for child brides (child sex = rape).

No, Moses you're playing the same card that the Muslims of today who commit these alleged crimes do - you're blaming a man who's been dead 1400 years for what they have done. You're actually providing them with an excuse. It is you who is being the apologist. Roll Eyes

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