Australian Politics Forum - Our perception of "terrorists"

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49281 At my desk.	Re: Our perception of "terrorists" Reply #15 - Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:04pm Saddam alone killed more people than that.
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chimera

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #16 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:41am

falah wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:57pm:

The fact is that the biggest killer of civilians is the US government. In the past two decades they killed a million in Iraq

Ths US killed many, and Shia /Sunni wars for Mohammed , (peace be upon him and bless his socks) also killed many fellow Muslims. Not all Muslims are insane, there's a sensible one near here in Taylor Street.
Jews are a bit over the top.
[During December 1945, the focus of the Jewish attacks shifted to RAF airfields, police stations and armories. There was frequent exchanges of fire and some loss of life on both sides. The High commissioner, Lord Gort , left Palestine in November 1945 and was replaced by another British general Sir Allan Cunningham. Cunningham decided to mount a major blow against the IZL and on the 28 to June 1946, 17,000 British troops flooded into Jerusalem to carry out Operation Agatha. The Jewish Agency offices were raided, arms found and the agency shut down, with a large number of Jews suspected of terrorism being arrested. Jewish terrorists soon started planning the a reprisal for Operation Agatha and made plans for the bombing attack on the King David hotel.

The British response to the King David bombing was another 48 hour cordon and search, code named Operation Shark. This operation was mounted by the men and 6th Airborne division. The aim of Operation shark was to remove the few remaining hard core terrorists left on the scene.]

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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: Our perception of "terrorists" Reply #17 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:22am freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:04pm: Saddam alone killed more people than that. People like you also said Saddam had WMDs. Some people don't care much for the truth. Andrew Wilkie knew the truth, and that has come back to bite the Liberal Party.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #18 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:29am

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:14pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 8:44am:

On the issue of sanity - insanity usually comes with significant mental impairment, whereas terrorism usually requires careful and deliberate planning and even cooperation between many people. If you were going to blow something up, you would not want a lunatic hanging around. This is similar to the legal distinction made between premeditation and a crime of passion or temporary insanity.

On the issue of motivation, when it comes to Islam you are creating a false dichotomy between religion and politics. Under Islam, they are one and the same.

Insanity is a legal term - not psychiatric and many ppl who suffer from serious mental illness can and do function in society and even have high IQs. You are confusing mental illness with mental retardation.

I am not confusing the legal and psychiatric terms, or retardation. Being able to function in society is not quite the same as being invited to help out with putting together a suicide vest or hijack an airplane.

Quote:

The question, when using a religious ideology as the "reason" to commit an atrocity is is it really the motive or just an excuse?

Another false dichotomy. You could ask the same about politics. In truth, any reason could be construed as both motive and excuse.

Put it this way - do you think Osama Bin Laden and his associates would have carried out the 9/11 attacks without first adopting Islam?

Quote:

Look @ the unabomber and andres breveik. They arent even muslim.

You appear to be assuming that there has to be one reason that applies to everyone.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

If it is really the motive, if the individual really believes the voices or the book or what ever told them to then they are prolly legally insane... otherwise no imo

Can you find a judge that agrees with you?

You said "significant mental impairment". That is retardation. If thats not what you meant then speak up - i use the wrong words sometimes too.

"Being able to function in society is not quite the same as being invited to help out with putting together a suicide vest or hijack an airplane." <--- Huh? They arent the same thing but they dont require any different mental capacity.

About the motive or excuse. yes you prolly could say the same about politics. Motive and excuse are not the same thing though. Why are you deliberately trying to say they are?

The osama question: sure why not? They were angry with america. Thier motives were laid out in black and white in his declarations of war on america. The fact they were muslims didnt really have anything to do with it (the motivation).

"You appear to be assuming that there has to be one reason that applies to everyone."

Way to go. Try to twist it. I was pointing out to YOU that they arent all muslims.

"Can you find a judge that agrees with you?"

Dont need a judge to agree with me. Need psychiatrists and psychologists.

Look I do not understand what your point is in all this. What are you saying? Overall? You pick little things out of my posts and disagree with them like you are making a point but I am not understanding the overall point.

I am tired of just explaining minutia with no idea what you are actually getting @.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #19 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:31am

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

chimera wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:

The abortion-clinic anti-doctor killers have religious motive as with Muslims.

There have only been around a dozen abortion clinic workers killed by christian nutjobs in the USA.

Yes they have the same motive as muslims yet they dont get 72 virgins and a everlasting erection in paradise for all eternity as a reward.

Lol. That is true. But it isnt the motivation. Well maybe for some but doubtful.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #20 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:32am

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

Abu thinks that the west has been at war with the Muslim world for over a hundred years. This sort of nonsense obviously makes terrorism look less bad to the potential terrorist, but it could only be believed through the bias of Islam.

Abu believes these things, but is obviously not insane by any definition. His justification is always political and he will cite endless lists of unrelated grievances from all over the world, but the ultimate reason is obviously Islam.

Who is abu?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #21 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:41am

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:31pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 3:31pm:

So why are they incarcerated in prisons instead of mental institutions?

The point is that if they are muslim we lock them in jails like criminals and if they arent they are assessed for mental illness.

By the way its "terrorism" not "terror" which is an american propaganda term.

SOB

That Fort Hood terrorist was assessed for mental illness i think you will find all major crimes will have medical reports prepared for the courts.

If they want to use mental illness for a defence then what caused this mental illness was it Islamic ideology?

I had to look that one up because I didnt know about it. Wikipedia says he was an american muslim psychiatrist so of course he was assessed. In fact I would venture to say that lone gunmen are usually assessed if they survive their rampages.

I am not a psychologist but I am pretty sure mental illness is not caused by religion. In fact I am not sure that the causes of most mental illnesses are known. If it was religion then all religious ppl would be insane so obviously that isnt the answer although a symptom of some mental illness is the radicalisation of whatever religion imo.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: Our perception of "terrorists" Reply #22 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:42am freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:04pm: Saddam alone killed more people than that. Sadam wasnt a "terrorist" - he was a leader of a country. SOB
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11777 Armidale Gender:	Re: Our perception of "terrorists" Reply #23 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 8:09am You want to take religion out of terrorism. If Sadam was political then he fits your argument. To make 9/11 political you need a political agenda. Can you suggest a national issue which needed World Trade Center removed?
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #24 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 8:38am

chimera wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 8:09am:

You want to take religion out of terrorism. If Sadam was political then he fits your argument.
To make 9/11 political you need a political agenda. Can you suggest a national issue which needed World Trade Center removed?

I am not trying to take religion out of terrorism. my thread was supposed to be intelligent conversation on the motivations of terrorists and our perceptions of them.

Saddam didnt blow up any trade towers though and he doesnt fit anything because he wasnt a terrorist.

And yes I already stated that Usama bin Ladens declaration of war on america stated his reasons for doing it. Look it up. Oh when looking it up you need to spell his name right - as he spells it.

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chimera

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #25 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 9:29am

I'm trying to be intelligent but haven't had breakfast yet.
You wrote "osama" not usama and lose 1 intelligent point.
The Kurds lost many points from Sadam's terrifying terrorism.
USama is a good Muslim terrorist:
(was a terrorist)
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #26 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 9:55am

chimera wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

I'm trying to be intelligent but haven't had breakfast yet.
You wrote "osama" not usama and lose 1 intelligent point.
The Kurds lost many points from Sadam's terrifying terrorism.
USama is a good Muslim terrorist:
(was a terrorist)
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999

Sorry mate. I didnt mean to imply that you arent intelligent.

Yeah @ quote. the one I saw was 1995 I think. Headed "declaration of war on the United States" or something like that. I will see if I can find it again later. He declared war on america several times and didnt get any response but laughter so resorted to terrorism.

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2012 at 10:08am by Sir Spot of Borg »

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11777 Armidale Gender:	Re: Our perception of "terrorists" Reply #27 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am Probaly if Breivik was sussed as a neo nazi /Red Brigade/ namaste light vibrator, then the terrorist shoes might fit him.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #28 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 10:12am

chimera wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

Probaly if Breivik was sussed as a neo nazi /Red Brigade/ namaste light vibrator, then the terrorist shoes might fit him.

Hmm. Are you saying that someone has to be a member of a "terrorist organisation" to be a terrorist? Or something else?

The definition of "terrorism" is political. Not religious. the religion helps though I guess. Brevik did claim his atrocities were committed towards political ends.

Definition of terrorism

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freediver

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Re: Our perception of "terrorists"
Reply #29 - Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

Abu thinks that the west has been at war with the Muslim world for over a hundred years. This sort of nonsense obviously makes terrorism look less bad to the potential terrorist, but it could only be believed through the bias of Islam.

Abu believes these things, but is obviously not insane by any definition. His justification is always political and he will cite endless lists of unrelated grievances from all over the world, but the ultimate reason is obviously Islam.

Who is abu?

SOB

He runs the Islam board. He is a Muslim.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:42am:

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:04pm:

Saddam alone killed more people than that.

Sadam wasnt a "terrorist" - he was a leader of a country.

SOB

Have a look at the post I was responding to.

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Poll
Question: Terrorists are:
poor militant groups 0 (0.0%) rich governments 2 (20.0%) Any bastard who deliberately targets civlians 8 (80.0%) Total votes: 10 « Created by: falah on: Apr 29^th, 2012 at 2:04pm »