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4 witnesses (Read 5085 times)
falah
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #15 - May 4th, 2012 at 6:14pm
 
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 4:24pm:
If a white woman married to a white man gave birth to a black baby who looked remarkably like the gardener, people would know she had been sleeping around.


Quote:
Abu Huraira narrated that:

"A bedouin came to God's Apostle (Muhammed, God's peace & blessings on him) and said, "My wife has delivered a black boy, and I suspect that he is not my child." God's Apostle said to him, "Have you got camels?" The bedouin said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "What color are they?" The bedouin said, "They are red." The Prophet said, "Are any of them Grey?" He said, "There are Grey ones among them." The Prophet said, "Whence do you think this color came to them?" The bedouin said, "O God's Apostle! It resulted from hereditary disposition." The Prophet said, "And this (i.e., your child) has inherited his color from his ancestors." The Prophet did not allow him to deny his paternity of the child.

[Saheeh al-Bukhari]

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Soren
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2012 at 3:05pm
 
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 5:25pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 4:24pm:
Can both parties be sentenced based on the confession of one?

No

freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 4:24pm:
If a white woman married to a white man gave birth to a black baby who looked remarkably like the gardener, people would know she had been sleeping around.


They would know?


Quote:



Quote:



freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 4:24pm:
If all 3 died of AIDS, people would know she had been spreading diseases.


Doesn't really prove anything. They could have been drug users.



Blacks can have albino babies, too.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #17 - May 7th, 2012 at 5:19pm
 
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:18pm:
yes


It is not permissable to make accusations without the four witnesses.

Making an accusation without the four witnesses is a punishable offence.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious ones. Except those who afterwards repent and do righteous deeds, for verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. ”

[Quran, an-Noor v.4-5]


So a woman needs 4 reliable male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina to report being raped.

An Australian woman was raped in the UAE, she reported it without having 4 witnesses so she was jailed.

Islamic law punishes the rape victim if she cannot locate 4 witness to this rape.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/jailed-rape-victim-to-sue-commonwealth-20110605-1fnc...

Google "uae rape victim jailed"

Do you think it is a bit harsh jailing the rape victim falah?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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falah
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #18 - May 7th, 2012 at 6:21pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 5:19pm:
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:18pm:
yes


It is not permissable to make accusations without the four witnesses.

Making an accusation without the four witnesses is a punishable offence.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious ones. Except those who afterwards repent and do righteous deeds, for verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. ”

[Quran, an-Noor v.4-5]


So a woman needs 4 reliable male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina to report being raped.

An Australian woman was raped in the UAE, she reported it without having 4 witnesses so she was jailed.

Islamic law punishes the rape victim if she cannot locate 4 witness to this rape.



Why does this forum attract so many liars? It is quite odd.

4 witnesses are required to convict a person for adultery, and as far as we know this has never happened.

Rape is a totally different crime to adultery, and 4 witnesses are not needed to convict a person for rape.

A rapist can be convicted on the testimony of the victim alone.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #19 - May 7th, 2012 at 6:42pm
 
falah wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 6:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 5:19pm:
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:18pm:
yes


It is not permissable to make accusations without the four witnesses.

Making an accusation without the four witnesses is a punishable offence.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious ones. Except those who afterwards repent and do righteous deeds, for verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. ”

[Quran, an-Noor v.4-5]


So a woman needs 4 reliable male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina to report being raped.

An Australian woman was raped in the UAE, she reported it without having 4 witnesses so she was jailed.

Islamic law punishes the rape victim if she cannot locate 4 witness to this rape.



Why does this forum attract so many liars? It is quite odd.

4 witnesses are required to convict a person for adultery, and as far as we know this has never happened.



Yes it must be difficult to find 4 reliable people who saw the penis enter the vagina do you think that could have something to do with the conviction rate?

If you are talking adultery do you mean Zina (unlawful sexual intercourse)?
The good sheikh says a pregnant woman without a husband or master is proof of zina so what is this crap you are going on about?

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/88051/zina

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Soren
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #20 - Jun 1st, 2012 at 11:06am
 
falah wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 6:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 5:19pm:
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:18pm:
yes


It is not permissable to make accusations without the four witnesses.

Making an accusation without the four witnesses is a punishable offence.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious ones. Except those who afterwards repent and do righteous deeds, for verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. ”

[Quran, an-Noor v.4-5]


So a woman needs 4 reliable male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina to report being raped.

An Australian woman was raped in the UAE, she reported it without having 4 witnesses so she was jailed.

Islamic law punishes the rape victim if she cannot locate 4 witness to this rape.



Why does this forum attract so many liars? It is quite odd.

4 witnesses are required to convict a person for adultery, and as far as we know this has never happened.

Rape is a totally different crime to adultery, and 4 witnesses are not needed to convict a person for rape.

A rapist can be convicted on the testimony of the victim alone.


Sudanese female minor sentenced to death by stoning
Monday, 21 May 2012 17:51

A Sudanese judge, Sami Ibrahim Shabo sentenced to death by stoning a young woman accused of committing adultery.

Intisar Sharif Abdalla, believed to be between 15 and 17 years of age (although prison authorities claim she is 20) was sentenced to death in accordance with Article 146 of the Sudanese criminal law albeit without legal representation.

The judgment was made on May 13, 2012 after just one hearing and came after an “admission of guilt” plea following torture and brutal beatings by Sharif’s brother who instigated the case. Her co-accused however remains un-convicted and walks freely.

This absurd decision demonstrates both the inhumane and brutal sanctioning to death for committing sexual relations outside of marriage, but furthermore calls into questions the legal institutions and frameworks applied, especially as the “admission of guilt” was made under duress.

Sharif is accused of having a relationship outside wedlock and getting impregnated by a man that is not legally her husband.  Initially, she and the man whom she is co-accused with both denied the charges.

Her lawyer, only able to access her after the judgment was made, understands that following her initial denial she was beaten up and tortured repeatedly by her brother forcing her to confess to committing adultery. With the ‘coerced’ confession, Judge Sami Ibrahim Shabo of Ombada General Criminal Court, Khartoum state, sentenced her to stoning after just one court session.

Sharif is understood to be deeply traumatized and is without access to any suitable psychosocial support. Her newly born child is also with her in prison. Ultimately, some observers believe the judgment demonstrates the scale of discrimination against women and girls in Sudan and the biased judgments made against them for acts which involves two sexes – a man and woman. It is incredulous that the man with whom she has been accused is able to walk free showing explicitly the strong anti-women sentiment and harsh management of family disputes that exist within both the Sudanese judicial system and society.

Strategic Initiative for Women in the Horn of Africa (SIHA) is calling on the Sudan Ministry of Justice and other relevant Sudanese government bodies to investigate this case thoroughly and possibly overturn the judgment.

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18837:sudane...



You are barbarians, no question about it. This is sharia, not some quaint pre-Islamic cultural practice.





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freediver
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #21 - Jun 1st, 2012 at 12:17pm
 
Ah, so that's how it works. Thanks Soren. I was wondering how the muslims got through several centuries without ever needing the 4 witnesses.
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Yadda
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #22 - Jun 4th, 2012 at 1:28pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 1st, 2012 at 11:06am:
falah wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 6:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 5:19pm:
falah wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 2:18pm:
yes


It is not permissable to make accusations without the four witnesses.

Making an accusation without the four witnesses is a punishable offence.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious ones. Except those who afterwards repent and do righteous deeds, for verily, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. ”

[Quran, an-Noor v.4-5]


So a woman needs 4 reliable male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina to report being raped.

An Australian woman was raped in the UAE, she reported it without having 4 witnesses so she was jailed.

Islamic law punishes the rape victim if she cannot locate 4 witness to this rape.



Why does this forum attract so many liars? It is quite odd.

4 witnesses are required to convict a person for adultery, and as far as we know this has never happened.

Rape is a totally different crime to adultery, and 4 witnesses are not needed to convict a person for rape.

A rapist can be convicted on the testimony of the victim alone.


Sudanese female minor sentenced to death by stoning
Monday, 21 May 2012 17:51

A Sudanese judge, Sami Ibrahim Shabo sentenced to death by stoning a young woman accused of committing adultery.

Intisar Sharif Abdalla, believed to be between 15 and 17 years of age (although prison authorities claim she is 20) was sentenced to death in accordance with Article 146 of the Sudanese criminal law albeit without legal representation.

The judgment was made on May 13, 2012 after just one hearing and came after an “admission of guilt” plea following torture and brutal beatings by Sharif’s brother who instigated the case. Her co-accused however remains un-convicted and walks freely.

This absurd decision demonstrates both the inhumane and brutal sanctioning to death for committing sexual relations outside of marriage, but furthermore calls into questions the legal institutions and frameworks applied, especially as the “admission of guilt” was made under duress.

Sharif is accused of having a relationship outside wedlock and getting impregnated by a man that is not legally her husband.  Initially, she and the man whom she is co-accused with both denied the charges.

Her lawyer, only able to access her after the judgment was made, understands that following her initial denial she was beaten up and tortured repeatedly by her brother forcing her to confess to committing adultery. With the ‘coerced’ confession, Judge Sami Ibrahim Shabo of Ombada General Criminal Court, Khartoum state, sentenced her to stoning after just one court session.

Sharif is understood to be deeply traumatized and is without access to any suitable psychosocial support. Her newly born child is also with her in prison. Ultimately, some observers believe the judgment demonstrates the scale of discrimination against women and girls in Sudan and the biased judgments made against them for acts which involves two sexes – a man and woman. It is incredulous that the man with whom she has been accused is able to walk free showing explicitly the strong anti-women sentiment and harsh management of family disputes that exist within both the Sudanese judicial system and society.

Strategic Initiative for Women in the Horn of Africa (SIHA) is calling on the Sudan Ministry of Justice and other relevant Sudanese government bodies to investigate this case thoroughly and possibly overturn the judgment.

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18837:sudane...



You are barbarians, no question about it. This is sharia, not some quaint pre-Islamic cultural practice.








Where is SOB,
         ...condemning this incident ???


.....a deafening silence follows.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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falah
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #23 - Jun 4th, 2012 at 8:59pm
 
Sudan is not run according to Islamic law. If the article is correct, then it proves the point because confessions made under coercion are not accepted, and stoning cannot be applied to unmarried people.

Islamic law was promised in the 1990's, but the military dictators reneged. They put Islamic leaders in prison and expelled foreign Muslims like Osama bin Laden.

Sudan's government is not run by Islamic law and th following article is about how Muslims are unhappy with the military dictatorship ruling the country:

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202290514.html

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freediver
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Re: 4 witnesses
Reply #24 - Jun 4th, 2012 at 9:46pm
 
Quote:
They put Islamic leaders in prison and expelled foreign Muslims like Osama bin Laden


Grin
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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