Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
Is Australia afraid of boat people? (Read 9197 times)
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #45 - May 14th, 2012 at 11:29am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 11:26am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 11:17am:
Annie the comments of PP are utterly appalling.

You can't say things like that.



Yes, they are appalling. He needs to learn not to lose his cool when he is provoked. But he was provoked.


As was Avram.
Do you see him react to such provocation?

We can learn something from the behaviour of Israelis.

Probably has something to do with the fact he probably has spent 3 years having petrol bombs chucked at him.
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
Annie Anthrax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #46 - May 14th, 2012 at 11:30am
 
Uncle Meat wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 11:20am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 9:24pm:
I hate to tell you but I have never killed one innocent person.




How do you define "innocent"?




Pretty loosely, I'm willing to bet.
Back to top
 

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 18789
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #47 - May 14th, 2012 at 12:19pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 6:52pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 6:18pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 11:02am:
since theres already a fear campaign on islam in western societies,

SOB


Telling the truth about Islam is not a fear campaign you dim wit.

Do these women have an irrational fear of Islam or is it entirely rational?
Quote:
Chechen women in mortal fear as President backs Islamic honour killings

Chechenya-
Chechenya's government is openly approving of families that kill female relatives who violate their sense of honour, as this Russian republic embraces  fundamentalist interpretation of Islam after decades of religious suppression under soviet rule.
Source-http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/29/chechen-women-in-mortal-fear-as-...



SOB and muppet are morally bankrupt Islamic apologists who claim to be atheists yet they stick up for Islam.



Telling the truth about it wouldn't be a fear campaign no. However the stereotype is hyped up to be a big scary terrorist and ppl tend to be afraid of big scary terrorists even though we dont even have them here.

Thing is - you are making the strawman here with the big "islamists are scary" thing since the thread is about boat ppl.

SOB


We have around 20 Islamic terrorists in jail for failed plots so you are telling lies with saying we dont have them here.

Cite where i have said Islamists are scary you plucked that from your ass to misrepresent my position with another strawman.

You are the one who went off topic with this propaganda about a fear campaign on Islam and now you are clutching at straws  to claim this is a strawman from  me.

I see why you are unemployable and frittering away your days on internet forums.



Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #48 - May 14th, 2012 at 12:37pm
 
Quote:
We have around 20 Islamic terrorists in jail for failed plots so you are telling lies with saying we dont have them here.


What did they blow up?

Quote:
Cite where i have said Islamists are scary you plucked that from your ass to misrepresent my position with another strawman.


"Do these women have an irrational fear of Islam or is it entirely rational?"

Quote:
You are the one who went off topic with this propaganda about a fear campaign on Islam and now you are clutching at straws  to claim this is a strawman from  me.


Yup. I made a kinda sideways comment on the topic. It wasnt really on topic and it was me not PP. You picked up on this and argued about it and then accused PP of having a strawman.

Quote:
I see why you are unemployable and frittering away your days on internet forums.


since you have no idea what I do or anything about me I have to guess you are projecting. sorry mate I am not you.

SOB

PS Read the initial post. He put a bit of work into making this thread. Least you should do is read the initial post.
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 18789
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #49 - May 14th, 2012 at 12:46pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 10:15am:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 6:18pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 11:02am:
since theres already a fear campaign on islam in western societies,

SOB


Telling the truth about Islam is not a fear campaign you dim wit.

Do these women have an irrational fear of Islam or is it entirely rational?
Quote:
Chechen women in mortal fear as President backs Islamic honour killings

Chechenya-
Chechenya's government is openly approving of families that kill female relatives who violate their sense of honour, as this Russian republic embraces  fundamentalist interpretation of Islam after decades of religious suppression under soviet rule.
Source-http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/29/chechen-women-in-mortal-fear-as-...



SOB and muppet are morally bankrupt Islamic apologists who claim to be atheists yet they stick up for Islam.




Did you show the same concern for Chechnya's women when they were being raped and slaughtered by Russian soldiers?


Nothing to say about Chechenya allowing honour killings Annie, Is it gods will to allow men to do honour killings which makes it ok?

In any conflict i say there are 3 sides to the story, here were have what the russians say and what the chechens say and the 3rd side is the truth which will be somewhere in between and independent of the russian-chechen stories.

Abu has confirmed the shia have a doctrine that allows them to lie it is called taqiyya, the sunni do not follow this doctrine they are only allowed to lie in 3 circumstances which are when at war, to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties.
The truth is when muslims are at war allah allows them to tell whopping great lies.

Before the first war-
Quote:
From 1991 to 1994 tens of tousands of people of non chechen ethnicity left the republic amidst reports of violence and discrimination against the non chechen population,
Chechen industry began to fail as a result of many russian engineers and workers leaving or being expelled

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

The invasion of Dagestan by the Islamic international brigade was the trigger for the second chechen war-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Dagestan

It appears to me that muslims start these conflicts then when they get their asses kicked they whinge like butthurt muslims over how they are oppressed.

Sahih Bukhari 3:34:432  Mohammad gave  his followers permission from allah to rape captives.
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/034-sbt.php#003.034.432
Did Mo say having sex with female captives was wrong Annie or did he approve?




Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #50 - May 15th, 2012 at 8:39pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 10:31am:
Firstly lets consider how a fear develops.

For a fear to develop it generally needs to be an idea similar to myth with the only stimuli being word of mouth etc.. or something that we are exposed to and are familiar/too familiar with.
If we remember that the media has been playing footage of boat people, and doing at least a few shock tactic stories on the issue every week we obviously have enough stimuli and exposure to the issue for a fear to develop.

But already we have spotted the first sure sign of fear which is a bad perception and/or understanding of the issue we are said to be afraid of; although through no fault of our own we believe the boat people to be a much bigger problem then it actually is.
Compare this to the person afraid of a harmless daddy long legs spider, where of cause the risk is little but the persons fear is unfounded.

Another thing that adds to fear is shocking or dramatic events which can lead to stress and even PDST. Revolving the boat people issue there have been many events which stand out from the boring everyday complaining such as children overboard and the capsizing at Christmas Island.
These events added combined with other factors certainly help the chance of fear developing.





Of course we need to look at the amount of people who are scared, and as with most fears we find that only a minority find fear in it. This isolation of opinion can also be a contributing factor to fear.

Lets have a look at this poll by Nielsen..
Quote:
Boats arriving in Australia:

First, respondents were asked if they thought that asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat
should be “allowed to land in Australia to be assessed”, “sent to another country to be assessed”
or “sent back out to sea”.

A majority of respondents (53%) preferred that asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat be
allowed to land to be assessed. Just over one in four (28%) felt that asylum seekers arriving in
Australia by boat should be sent to another country to be assessed. 15% said the boats should be
sent back out to sea
. 4% did not know or offered another option.

http://au.nielsen.com/site/documents/NielsenAsylumseekersarrivingbyboatAugust201...

Now it is probably around that 15% where fear occurs more, of course there would be some in the 28% category as well.

Still only a minority, but still enough people for fear to develop and spread throughout the community.

Society also has a big part to play in the development of said fear. Some people are perhaps unwilling to talk about the issue, or unwilling/unable to share their honest opinions on the issue, people feeling they will be outcast or treated differently if they support asylum seekers. The patriotic 'Australian attitude' of a person would certainly come into question for some people if someone was to support asylum seekers.
While it is often easy to pass things like this off, you have to understand that it is different when it is actually happening and combined with other factors can be a lot more powerful an affect.


Quote:
Physical Side Effects:

Fear may cause headaches, diarrhea, sweating, rapid heartbeat and shortness of breath. You may experience one or more of these symptoms, as the experience is different for each person.
The physical side effects seem a bit dramatic in this case. BUT consider that a small fear of boat people may add on to other fears/anxieties and cause these problems to develop in people. Or they could form a basis for these problems to develop as separate things happen in your life.



Certainly we are to see the full effects of this as younger generations get older.
Particularly since 2001 children have been growing up in a very different world, and if there is one fear you cannot deny it is the fear of terrorists etc.
I think that if a kid is scared of spiders and he sees his parents killing spiders that would probably cause him to do when older. What will grown up children do to asylum seekers or pow's when they have seen their parents put them in prison and mentally abusing/torturing them?
Regardless of what side of the debate you are on it doesn't seem like something worth taking a risk over.







_______________________
In summary.
This could have gone on forever and there could be a thousand other contributing factors I could list but already there is enough evidence to show that fear could and therefore has developed in the community.
Given our population it is certain that some people are scared, now we must determine how far this has spread.
Certainly when the issue is raised in public media fear seems to be a central underlying feature; does this reflect how society feels?

Fear is dangerous.

Fear should not be underestimated and is not something we should take risks with, even the potential should be enough to prompt action.

Education would be the cliche first step, and I think that is right.
When one truly understands an issue we find it harder to fear, and it is obvious the media is not a legitimate place to find that understanding.




The issue isn't really about fear. I haven't heard the term "fear" used by anyone outside those who support boat people. As soon as someone questions the validity of boat people the term" fear" is thrown about; kind of like the term "racist" or "sexist" is used when someone says something that some else finds "offensive."

The issue has more to do with tax payers money being spent on people who frankly don't deserve it, and the use of illegal channels to settle here. I don't see what "fear" has to do with it.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #51 - May 15th, 2012 at 8:43pm
 
If I were in charge I'd put them straight to work. Their housing, meals, healthcare, clothes etc shouldn't be free. Put them to work on simple tasks like cleaning sh*t up for 8 hours a day. Get them into the work ethic straight off the bat. Get it through their head from day one that there are no free rides.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #52 - May 17th, 2012 at 5:24pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 8:39pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 10:31am:
Firstly lets consider how a fear develops.

For a fear to develop it generally needs to be an idea similar to myth with the only stimuli being word of mouth etc.. or something that we are exposed to and are familiar/too familiar with.
If we remember that the media has been playing footage of boat people, and doing at least a few shock tactic stories on the issue every week we obviously have enough stimuli and exposure to the issue for a fear to develop.

But already we have spotted the first sure sign of fear which is a bad perception and/or understanding of the issue we are said to be afraid of; although through no fault of our own we believe the boat people to be a much bigger problem then it actually is.
Compare this to the person afraid of a harmless daddy long legs spider, where of cause the risk is little but the persons fear is unfounded.

Another thing that adds to fear is shocking or dramatic events which can lead to stress and even PDST. Revolving the boat people issue there have been many events which stand out from the boring everyday complaining such as children overboard and the capsizing at Christmas Island.
These events added combined with other factors certainly help the chance of fear developing.





Of course we need to look at the amount of people who are scared, and as with most fears we find that only a minority find fear in it. This isolation of opinion can also be a contributing factor to fear.

Lets have a look at this poll by Nielsen..
Quote:
Boats arriving in Australia:

First, respondents were asked if they thought that asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat
should be “allowed to land in Australia to be assessed”, “sent to another country to be assessed”
or “sent back out to sea”.

A majority of respondents (53%) preferred that asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat be
allowed to land to be assessed. Just over one in four (28%) felt that asylum seekers arriving in
Australia by boat should be sent to another country to be assessed. 15% said the boats should be
sent back out to sea
. 4% did not know or offered another option.

http://au.nielsen.com/site/documents/NielsenAsylumseekersarrivingbyboatAugust201...

Now it is probably around that 15% where fear occurs more, of course there would be some in the 28% category as well.

Still only a minority, but still enough people for fear to develop and spread throughout the community.

Society also has a big part to play in the development of said fear. Some people are perhaps unwilling to talk about the issue, or unwilling/unable to share their honest opinions on the issue, people feeling they will be outcast or treated differently if they support asylum seekers. The patriotic 'Australian attitude' of a person would certainly come into question for some people if someone was to support asylum seekers.
While it is often easy to pass things like this off, you have to understand that it is different when it is actually happening and combined with other factors can be a lot more powerful an affect.


Quote:
Physical Side Effects:

Fear may cause headaches, diarrhea, sweating, rapid heartbeat and shortness of breath. You may experience one or more of these symptoms, as the experience is different for each person.
The physical side effects seem a bit dramatic in this case. BUT consider that a small fear of boat people may add on to other fears/anxieties and cause these problems to develop in people. Or they could form a basis for these problems to develop as separate things happen in your life.



Certainly we are to see the full effects of this as younger generations get older.
Particularly since 2001 children have been growing up in a very different world, and if there is one fear you cannot deny it is the fear of terrorists etc.
I think that if a kid is scared of spiders and he sees his parents killing spiders that would probably cause him to do when older. What will grown up children do to asylum seekers or pow's when they have seen their parents put them in prison and mentally abusing/torturing them?
Regardless of what side of the debate you are on it doesn't seem like something worth taking a risk over.







_______________________
In summary.
This could have gone on forever and there could be a thousand other contributing factors I could list but already there is enough evidence to show that fear could and therefore has developed in the community.
Given our population it is certain that some people are scared, now we must determine how far this has spread.
Certainly when the issue is raised in public media fear seems to be a central underlying feature; does this reflect how society feels?

Fear is dangerous.

Fear should not be underestimated and is not something we should take risks with, even the potential should be enough to prompt action.

Education would be the cliche first step, and I think that is right.
When one truly understands an issue we find it harder to fear, and it is obvious the media is not a legitimate place to find that understanding.




The issue isn't really about fear. I haven't heard the term "fear" used by anyone outside those who support boat people. As soon as someone questions the validity of boat people the term" fear" is thrown about; kind of like the term "racist" or "sexist" is used when someone says something that some else finds "offensive."

The issue has more to do with tax payers money being spent on people who frankly don't deserve it, and the use of illegal channels to settle here. I don't see what "fear" has to do with it.


The issue in the media is about the money but the real issue as it comes across is fear. Fear of our "white" society getting polluted and fear of "muslims" and fear of them trying to take over the country maybe. General fear maybe. Is there fear? Are ppl afraid of asylum seekers?

SOB
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #53 - May 17th, 2012 at 6:44pm
 
Well, if they're Muslims then it's a good thing that they're stopped. They're incompatible with liberal democracies and post-Enlightenment societies.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #54 - May 18th, 2012 at 4:38pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 12:19pm:
We have around 20 Islamic terrorists in jail for failed plots so you are telling lies with saying we dont have them here.


Nobody of them has actually been convicted for plotting an actual terrorist plot. The evidence use in the trials was very flimsy, and if they were Christian, they would not have been convicted on such flimsy evidence.

The fact is that all the terrorist attacks performed on Australian soil in living memory were all committed by white Christian terrorists.
Back to top
 

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #55 - May 18th, 2012 at 4:43pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 6:18pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 11:02am:
since theres already a fear campaign on islam in western societies,

SOB


Telling the truth about Islam is not a fear campaign you dim wit.

Do these women have an irrational fear of Islam or is it entirely rational?
Quote:
Chechen women in mortal fear as President backs Islamic honour killings

Chechenya-
Chechenya's government is openly approving of families that kill female relatives who violate their sense of honour, as this Russian republic embraces  fundamentalist interpretation of Islam after decades of religious suppression under soviet rule.
Source-http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/29/chechen-women-in-mortal-fear-as-...






Chechnya is not independent. It is currently occupied by Russia. Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov is Russian puppet known as a corrupt murder. He probably killed the women himself.
Back to top
 

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #56 - May 18th, 2012 at 4:55pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 12:46pm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

The invasion of Dagestan by the Islamic international brigade was the trigger for the second chechen war-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Dagestan

It appears to me that muslims start these conflicts then when they get their asses kicked they whinge like butthurt muslims over how they are oppressed.


Are Chechny and Dagestan invading Russia or is it the other way round?

Baronvonrort wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 12:46pm:
Sahih Bukhari 3:34:432  Mohammad gave  his followers permission from allah to rape captives.
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/034-sbt.php#003.034.432


The hadeeth does not mention rape at all.

This is how the Quran tells Muslims to treat women:

Quote:
And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment...O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and nor should you treat them (women) with harshness...On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity...

The Quran, an-Nisaa' (The Women), v. 14-9
Back to top
 

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #57 - May 18th, 2012 at 9:16pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 10:15am:
Did you show the same concern for Chechnya's women when they were being raped and slaughtered by Russian soldiers?



Did you? Or were you still a wee 9/11/15/25/36/49/98  year old?
You are very keen to beat others over the head with the responsibility stick and then run away and claim that the same questions cannot be put to you because you were too young, too Muslim/not Muslim, a woman, not a woman - in short, not responsible.

You have a knack for pulling people up on things that you could not possibly be asked to show responsibility for. Very ... er..., Muslim, that, no responsibility. Or emasculated. Or whatever your latest 'I'm not responsible' theory says. 
Where were you when the Russians were in Chechenya? Where were you when anything serious happened to people you seem to be so worried about  -Chechens, Palestinians, the downtrodden, etc, etc?








Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Avram Horowitz
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3153
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #58 - May 18th, 2012 at 9:21pm
 
Chechens are murdering terrorist scum.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Is Australia afraid of boat people?
Reply #59 - May 18th, 2012 at 9:22pm
 
falah wrote on May 18th, 2012 at 4:55pm:
This is how the Quran tells Muslims to treat women:

Quote:
And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment...O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and nor should you treat them (women) with harshness...On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity...

The Quran, an-Nisaa' (The Women), v. 14-9


So why don't Muslim men treat their women with kindness?

Why hasn't Islam eradicated honour killings? It has had the teaching you cite for 1400 years.  How long will it take for Islam to actually be acting the way you say it should be???
It's too easy to blow up old Buddha statues. When will Islam actually embody kindness towards half of its devotees?






Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print