Australian Politics Forum - Will Tony Stand aside?

longweekend58

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #60 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:20am

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:36am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 9:06pm:

Gist wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 9:01pm:

Irrelevant Soren. Tony is now a defendant in a court matter. Under the new integrity rules as laid down by Tony himself, he MUST stand aside until this is cleared up by the courts.

THOSE ARE TONY'S RULES. TONY HAS TO LIVE BY THEM.

Where did he say that if a parliamentarian is sued for what he or she has said, he/she must stand aside?
I can't find any such pronouncement from anyone.

In any case, I though Gillard made Thopson stand aside and Slipper volunteered. You've heard differently?

I agree that Abbott should be made to stand aside...

after FWA has come out with its report in 4 years time
after the party has taken a further 4 years to vacillate on the matter
after Abbotts workplace has been raided

sounds quite fair to me.

It would be fair IF the thread were discussing Thomson and Abbott. But it isn't - it is discussing Slipper and Abbott both of whom are now caught up in civil court actions. Slipper stood aside to allow due process in the courts. Why isn't Abbott?

Slipper has a CRIMINAL investigation in progress. PLus, the civil suit is serious while the Abbott defamation suit is frivolous in the extreme. imagaine being sued by a union official with a criminal record for violence because you called him a thug!!!

so If I sue Gillard for breach of promise, shoudl she resign?

The newspaper article alludes to a lot of other things Abbott is supposed to have said which prompted the civil action by the respondent. Regardless of criminal investigations for Slipper- those investigations are yet to
come up as actual charges - so he is innocent there until proven guilty. On the civil matter, both Slipper and Abbot are defendants in a court action against them - once again they are both innocent until proven otherwise. The issue is though - Slipper stood down whilst the actions are in progress. Abbott did not..

As for suing Julia Gillard, I am sure the Liberals would be screaming for her to stand down to allow action to go ahead in the courts If you agree she should, then you must agree that Abbott should stand aside also!

if you seriously want to conclude that the allegations against Slipper - which include ciminal allegations along with a long history of fraud - stand up against a claim that a union official is a thug then you need your head read! AND the union official is from a buidling union. That is almost all the proof you need.

get serious. Serious allegations demand serious action. Frivolous ones shoudl be ignored. Adn guess what... almost everyone but you is ignoring it.

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« Last Edit: May 16^th, 2012 at 11:28am by longweekend58 »

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Will Tony Stand aside? Reply #61 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:28am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 9:16am: He was accusing the guy of illegal stuff. If it is true then there would be charges. If not then he is slandering like he does. SOB Like what 'illegal stuff', genius?
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #62 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:34am

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

He was accusing the guy of illegal stuff. If it is true then there would be charges. If not then he is slandering like he does.

SOB

Like what 'illegal stuff', genius?

Quote:

The opposition leader went on to explain that the reason for these ‘home visits’ were “for the purpose of making demands that amount to extortion”, underlining the very basis of the under the covers intimidation that goes on in the construction industry.

Extortion is illegal. So is thuggery I expect.

SOB

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Moron!

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Will Tony Stand aside? Reply #63 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:36am Just the responses I expected from the conga line of solid gold lying hypocrites. Longwhine never ceases to induce vomit in ones mouth.
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Soren

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #64 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:38am

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

It would be fair IF the thread were discussing Thomson and Abbott. But it isn't - it is discussing Slipper and Abbott both of whom are now caught up in civil court actions. Slipper stood aside to allow due process in the courts. Why isn't Abbott?

One reason, the essential reason is that Slipper is accused in his capacity as Speaker and as such, Ashby's boss. Ashby is accusing Slipper of misconduct in his position as Parliamentary Speaker and therefore the Commonwealth's agent, as it were, towards his staff. If you have a look, Slipper and the Commonwealth are the co-respondents to Ashby's accusations.
Slipper is also subject to criminal investigations by the police in relation to misuse of funds. Ashby has left this out of his final deposition only because the criminal ivestigations have been set in train by the police and so Ashby doesn't need to take it up in his own civil case.

In Abbott's case, it's Abbott and a news channel. In other words, Abbott is not accused in his capacity as a parliamentarian but as an ordinary person.

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« Last Edit: May 16^th, 2012 at 11:44am by Soren »

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lisa.greek

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #65 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:36am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

Soren wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 9:06pm:

Gist wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 9:01pm:

Irrelevant Soren. Tony is now a defendant in a court matter. Under the new integrity rules as laid down by Tony himself, he MUST stand aside until this is cleared up by the courts.

THOSE ARE TONY'S RULES. TONY HAS TO LIVE BY THEM.

Where did he say that if a parliamentarian is sued for what he or she has said, he/she must stand aside?
I can't find any such pronouncement from anyone.

In any case, I though Gillard made Thopson stand aside and Slipper volunteered. You've heard differently?

I agree that Abbott should be made to stand aside...

after FWA has come out with its report in 4 years time
after the party has taken a further 4 years to vacillate on the matter
after Abbotts workplace has been raided

sounds quite fair to me.

It would be fair IF the thread were discussing Thomson and Abbott. But it isn't - it is discussing Slipper and Abbott both of whom are now caught up in civil court actions. Slipper stood aside to allow due process in the courts. Why isn't Abbott?

Slipper has a CRIMINAL investigation in progress. PLus, the civil suit is serious while the Abbott defamation suit is frivolous in the extreme. imagaine being sued by a union official with a criminal record for violence because you called him a thug!!!

so If I sue Gillard for breach of promise, shoudl she resign?

The newspaper article alludes to a lot of other things Abbott is supposed to have said which prompted the civil action by the respondent. Regardless of criminal investigations for Slipper- those investigations are yet to
come up as actual charges - so he is innocent there until proven guilty. On the civil matter, both Slipper and Abbot are defendants in a court action against them - once again they are both innocent until proven otherwise. The issue is though - Slipper stood down whilst the actions are in progress. Abbott did not..

As for suing Julia Gillard, I am sure the Liberals would be screaming for her to stand down to allow action to go ahead in the courts If you agree she should, then you must agree that Abbott should stand aside also!

if you seriously want to conclude that the allegations against Slipper - which include ciminal allegations along with a long history of fraud - stand up against a claim that a union official is a thug then you need your head read! AND the union official is from a buidling union. That is almost all the proof you need.

get serious. Serious allegations demand serious action. Frivolous ones shoudl be ignored. Adn guess what... almost everyone but you is ignoring it.

Woah - hang on there - no need to be abusive!

It doesn't matter whether the allegations are frivolous, serious, or anything else. The courts and our justice system will decide that and either throw them out or pass judgement

The fact of the matter is, both Abbott and Slipper are being taken to court by someone who is agrieved. Got that so far?

The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't.

As stated before in answer to one of your questions - if Gillard was being sued for anything, then the Liberals would demand she stand down until the court system took it's course - as they did with Slipper.

Time for Abbott to talk the talk and walk the walk as he did with Slipper and stand down

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Will Tony Stand aside? Reply #66 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am: The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't. The salient point is that Slipper is accused of misconduct in his job as a Parliamentary Speaker towards his staff .
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lisa.greek

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #67 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:53am

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't.

The salient point is that Slipper is accused of misconduct in his job as a Parliamentary Speaker towards his staff .

I don't belive Slipper was the Parliamentary Speaker at the time the alledged incidents occurred. I understand he voluntarily stood aside after assumming the job of Speaker to protect the prestige of the position

Once again, Slipper and Abbott are both defendants in civil cases bought about by agreived people. Slipper stood aside so should Abbott

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progressiveslol

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #68 - May 16^th, 2012 at 11:59am

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't.

The salient point is that Slipper is accused of misconduct in his job as a Parliamentary Speaker towards his staff .

I don't belive Slipper was the Parliamentary Speaker at the time the alledged incidents occurred. I understand he voluntarily stood aside after assumming the job of Speaker to protect the prestige of the position

Once again, Slipper and Abbott are both defendants in civil cases bought about by agreived people. Slipper stood aside so should Abbott

suppose you might be right. Shaking someones hand, touching, is the same as rape and both should be handled in the same way.

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lisa.greek

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #69 - May 16^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

progressiveslol wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't.

The salient point is that Slipper is accused of misconduct in his job as a Parliamentary Speaker towards his staff .

I don't belive Slipper was the Parliamentary Speaker at the time the alledged incidents occurred. I understand he voluntarily stood aside after assumming the job of Speaker to protect the prestige of the position

Once again, Slipper and Abbott are both defendants in civil cases bought about by agreived people. Slipper stood aside so should Abbott

suppose you might be right. Shaking someones hand, touching, is the same as rape and both should be handled in the same way.

If that's your belief then fine - it is not mine though. and that is not the assumptions that this thread has taken until now

What I am saying is that Slipper and Abbott both have actions being taken by them in the civil courst by agrieved persons. They are both innocent until proven otherwise. Slipper voluntarily stood aside to protect the integrity of the Speaker's Chair until justice is served. Abbot should do the same

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Soren

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #70 - May 16^th, 2012 at 12:12pm

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Soren wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

lisa.greek wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 11:43am:

The salient point here is that Slipper stood down - as an innocent until proven guilty man - but Abbott didn't.

The salient point is that Slipper is accused of misconduct in his job as a Parliamentary Speaker towards his staff .

I don't belive Slipper was the Parliamentary Speaker at the time the alledged incidents occurred. I understand he voluntarily stood aside after assumming the job of Speaker to protect the prestige of the position

Once again, Slipper and Abbott are both defendants in civil cases bought about by agreived people. Slipper stood aside so should Abbott

Slipper was a parliamentarian before he got the Speakership and was Ashby's boss. Ashby accuses him in his capacity as a boss in the Commonwealth parliamentary system.
PLUS there is now a criminal investigation about misusing parliamentary funds while being a parliamentarian. Every accusation against Slipper is in relation to his conduct in his job.

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Soren

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #71 - May 16^th, 2012 at 12:21pm

[quote author=2623392B642D382F2F214A0 link=1337064703/69#69 date=1337133955 They are both innocent until proven otherwise. [/quote]

Incorrect. Regarding the workplace harrassment accusations against Slipper, under Gillard's Fair Work laws, the presumption is against the accused (Slipper) and he has to prove that the accusations are false.

In all other legal matters, the accuser has to prove his case. In any case, guilt and innocence are terms only in criminal law. There is no guilt or innocence in civil law, only liability.

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PhonyTonyAbbott

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #72 - May 16^th, 2012 at 5:31pm

Abbott won't stand down - end of story.

The real question is - who is paying for Abbott's legal costs.

If he expects the Liberal Party to pay for them, he is definitely being hypocritical as he has implied (if not stated) that both Slipper and Thomson should be paying their own legal costs.

Ahhh, I hear you all say, but the Labor Party was paying for Thomson's legal costs.

Yes, it was, just as the Victorian Liberal Party covered the legal costs of one of it's own MP's in a defamation case in 2011 to the tune of $145k (possibly more).

"THE Victorian Liberals paid at least $145,000 in legal fees to help senior government minister David Davis defend himself in a legal battle against the former state secretary of the Labor Party."

I'd post a link, but being a newcomer, I'm not able to.

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Dnarever

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Re: Will Tony Stand aside?
Reply #73 - May 16^th, 2012 at 5:31pm

Well there only seems to be a few options

Does Tnoy’s rules for others apply to himself? (ridiculous to suggest they should)

Can the conservatives spin it to look like a difference exists where it clearly doesn’t?

Are tnoy and co + their supporters hypocrites of the worst order? (consistent with their history).

I would think there are good reasons for not shortcutting the trial process to establish guilt or you can end up looking as incompetent dishonest mean spirited and opportunistic as Tnoy Abbnott does now.

By his own standard (or more accurately lack of) he has to stand aside, Impaled by his own petard

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38846 Gender:	Re: Will Tony Stand aside? Reply #74 - May 16^th, 2012 at 5:47pm Quote: Every accusation against Slipper is in relation to his conduct in his job. Huh? Care to explain?
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