Australian Politics Forum - Avram's beliefs

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #150 - May 29^th, 2012 at 1:06pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:54pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Aside from the fact -

1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank.
2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier).

But don't let facts blur your anger.

the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for?

SOB

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #151 - May 29^th, 2012 at 1:50pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:54pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Aside from the fact -

1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank.
2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier).

But don't let facts blur your anger.

the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for?

SOB

The settlements are still there because they can't remove them.
There are hundreds of thousands of people living in them.

They've been clear from the get-go they are not moving them but have promised not to build more.
They have given Gaza to the Palestinians (Egypt never did) and given the most part of the West Bank to the Palestinians (Jordan never did).

And the response of these illiterate cretins?
To fire more rockets into Israel.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #152 - May 29^th, 2012 at 2:04pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:54pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Aside from the fact -

1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank.
2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier).

But don't let facts blur your anger.

the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for?

SOB

The settlements are still there because they can't remove them.
There are hundreds of thousands of people living in them.

They've been clear from the get-go they are not moving them but have promised not to build more.
They have given Gaza to the Palestinians (Egypt never did) and given the most part of the West Bank to the Palestinians (Jordan never did).

And the response of these illiterate cretins?
To fire more rockets into Israel.

Heh. The rockets were prolly in response to something else. Like the shooting of paelstinians (see shooting thread) or the destruction of olive groves (see olive groves thread) or any number of other atrocities committed by israel.

The settlers are illegal and should leave. They dont belong there. If they want to become palestinians then fair enough do some deal with them but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong. They need to leave. Its not their land. They are terrorists anyway.

SOB

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freediver

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #153 - May 29^th, 2012 at 5:45pm

Quote:

but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong

Is that what you meant to say Borg?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Now you sound a bit more reasonable, but nothing like Palestinians or Muslims of course. The reality is, Israel would be happy with this outcome if the rockets stopped. THe only problem is, the Palestinians would not be. Even if their authority was, they would be incapable of actually stopping their citizens firing rockets. That's how loony they are, and that is the crux of the problem.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #154 - May 29^th, 2012 at 6:04pm

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 5:45pm:

Quote:

but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong

Is that what you meant to say Borg?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Now you sound a bit more reasonable, but nothing like Palestinians or Muslims of course. The reality is, Israel would be happy with this outcome if the rockets stopped. THe only problem is, the Palestinians would not be. Even if their authority was, they would be incapable of actually stopping their citizens firing rockets. That's how loony they are, and that is the crux of the problem.

You are the one that gave me that weird silly "explanation" of how the rockets and "responses" work. How can anyone argue with reasoning like that? Gawd. I will look it up in the morning.

SOB

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49258 At my desk.	Re: Avram's beliefs Reply #155 - May 29^th, 2012 at 6:20pm Good, perhaps you will get the point of it then.
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MOTR

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #156 - May 30^th, 2012 at 1:53am

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

About as reasonable as asking for a man to stop struggling as you strangle him to death.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #157 - May 30^th, 2012 at 8:08am

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 5:45pm:

Quote:

but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong

Is that what you meant to say Borg?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Now you sound a bit more reasonable, but nothing like Palestinians or Muslims of course. The reality is, Israel would be happy with this outcome if the rockets stopped. THe only problem is, the Palestinians would not be. Even if their authority was, they would be incapable of actually stopping their citizens firing rockets. That's how loony they are, and that is the crux of the problem.

Whole sentence in context - that was naughty taking it out of context:

Quote:

If they want to become palestinians then fair enough do some deal with them but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinian land its wrong.

It is not their land. They should not be there.

I expect the "rockets" are done by individual ppl without the orders of the govt. In fact I am pretty sure I have heard this even in the biased media. Oppressed ppl taking it upon themselves to send a message to their oppressors. On the other hand the Israeli military responds by raiding gaza and killing civilians and children and families.

Israel has broken every ceasefire.

SOB

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Avram's beliefs Reply #158 - May 30^th, 2012 at 9:17am So if you excuse the Palestinian Authority from blame because it is "individuals" firing the rockets, why do you blame us for the behaviour of the settlers? You seem to pick your argument depending on who you speak of.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #159 - May 30^th, 2012 at 9:24am

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 30^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

So if you excuse the Palestinian Authority from blame because it is "individuals" firing the rockets, why do you blame us for the behaviour of the settlers?

You seem to pick your argument depending on who you speak of.

Because the settlers shouldn't be there and are supported by the israel govt and military. Why are they not charged with murder when they kill? Why are they not charged with terrorism when they destroy crops etc?

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freediver

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #160 - May 30^th, 2012 at 8:06pm

Quote:

Whole sentence in context - that was naughty taking it out of context:

I did not change the meaning of it Borg. You appear to have said what you did not mean. Or at least I hope that is not what you think. Is it? You should probably read it again before answering.

Quote:

I expect the "rockets" are done by individual ppl without the orders of the govt.

Duh. That kind of misses the point Borg. It is the government's responsibility to stop it, because it is the people of Palestine that suffer the consequences. Without any ability to govern the people, the government has no ability to negoitate on their behalf. This rules out peace from the beginning.

Quote:

Oppressed ppl taking it upon themselves to send a message to their oppressors.

If only they spared a few seconds to think about what that message is, because at the moment the message is 'kill us and drive us further from the border so we can't fire rockets, because we are far too loony to negotiate with'.

Quote:

Israel has broken every ceasefire.

No Borg, that was the Palestinians. You because they are too incompetent to maintain a ceasefire does not absolve them of responsibility for breaking it.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #161 - May 31^st, 2012 at 7:36am

Quote:

I did not change the meaning of it Borg. You appear to have said what you did not mean. Or at least I hope that is not what you think. Is it? You should probably read it again before answering.

I dont remember what you are talking about but you do that quite often @ taking parts of sentences and quoting them

Quote:

Duh. That kind of misses the point Borg. It is the government's responsibility to stop it, because it is the people of Palestine that suffer the consequences.

How exactly do they do that? Hmmmm? They cant even stop ppl from committing crimes in Australia. How is a country under constant attack going to control crime?

Quote:

If only they spared a few seconds to think about what that message is, because at the moment the message is 'kill us and drive us further from the border so we can't fire rockets, because we are far too loony to negotiate with'.

To a culturally brainwashed mind maybe. Their message is obviously LEAVE US ALONE.

Quote:

No Borg, that was the Palestinians. You because they are too incompetent to maintain a ceasefire does not absolve them of responsibility for breaking it.

Obviously it was the israelis.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1337653279/93#93

Quote:

Borg, this requires a frank look at the evidence, not spin doctoring. Take this as an example:

Country A attacks B on day X in history.

80 days later country B defends itself.

3 hours later country A launches yet another unprovoked attack.

This time it takes B a bit longer to summon it's resources, but manages to respond in 130 days.

87 minutes later country A again launches another completely unprovoked attack.

...and so on

In your explanation it is clearly israel in the wrong trying to use faulty logic to justify thier atrocities.

SOB

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freediver

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #162 - May 31^st, 2012 at 8:12am

Quote:

I dont remember what you are talking about but you do that quite often @ taking parts of sentences and quoting them

You just quoted your own post - that is what I am talking about. Is it what you actually meant to say?

Quote:

How exactly do they do that? Hmmmm? They cant even stop ppl from committing crimes in Australia. How is a country under constant attack going to control crime?

If they wanted to, they could stop it, because they are not actually under constant attack any more than they are constantly attacking Israel. There are always problems like this when a war ends. The difference is that according to the Muslims (including Abu and Falah) the war has not ended. Falah wants them to keep fighting and dying. The problem is not that they can't, but that they don't want to end the violence.

Quote:

To a culturally brainwashed mind maybe. Their message is obviously LEAVE US ALONE.

That is a pretty stupid way to ask to be left alone, especially if you are so inferior from a military perspective. It is just asking to get you arse kicked. Perhaps if the Israelis thought they could achieve peace it might mean something, but given that most of these Muslims want Israel totally destroyed, there is no chance of it achieving what you claim the Palestinians want.

Quote:

In your explanation it is clearly Israel in the wrong trying to use faulty logic to justify their atrocities.

My explanation did not mention Israel. I guess your response does demonstrate the inability of some people to simply stop and think before posting (let alone look at the evidence).

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #163 - May 31^st, 2012 at 8:55am

If I quoted my own post it was because you didnt listen and asked the same question again after I answered it. Thats what usually happens.

Sounds like you have personal problems with falah. Not my problem.

Quote:

That is a pretty stupid way to ask to be left alone, especially if you are so inferior from a military perspective. It is just asking to get you arse kicked. Perhaps if the Israelis thought they could achieve peace it might mean something, but given that most of these Muslims want Israel totally destroyed, there is no chance of it achieving what you claim the Palestinians want.

So they should just lay down and die. Just take the abuse. Not fight back when israel attacks?

Quote:

My explanation did not mention Israel. I guess your response does demonstrate the inability of some people to simply stop and think before posting (let alone look at the evidence).

On so country A is palestine? If so then that doesnt answer the question i asked you in the first place. I asked you why israel breaks ceasefires. That was your answer. In that answer if A is palestine then they broke it which isnt true.

SOB

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #164 - May 31^st, 2012 at 9:24am

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 5:45pm:

Quote:

but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong

Is that what you meant to say Borg?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Now you sound a bit more reasonable, but nothing like Palestinians or Muslims of course. The reality is, Israel would be happy with this outcome if the rockets stopped. THe only problem is, the Palestinians would not be. Even if their authority was, they would be incapable of actually stopping their citizens firing rockets. That's how loony they are, and that is the crux of the problem.

So as a comparison you would be happy to give up 90% of Australia to an invading army?

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