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Avram's beliefs (Read 14251 times)
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #45 - May 25th, 2012 at 1:55am
 
falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm:
Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.


Soon Israel will be forced to send a couple "buckets full of sunshine" to Iran. Then all Muslims will calm down.

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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #46 - May 25th, 2012 at 7:13am
 
The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go.

Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position.

SOB
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #47 - May 25th, 2012 at 11:22am
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 7:13am:
The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go.

Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position.

SOB

You would hope
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #48 - May 25th, 2012 at 11:36am
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm:
That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel.
But I do not believe it can work.

Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes.
Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control.
I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value.
For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas.

Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials.

But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza.

I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN.

So me I think we need middle way but also be firm.
I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country.
But if living with them means peace I accept it.

We must be fair and just.
But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell.
They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself.



What a sensible post.
Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents.
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #49 - May 25th, 2012 at 11:42am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 11:36am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm:
That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel.
But I do not believe it can work.

Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes.
Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control.
I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value.
For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas.

Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials.

But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza.

I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN.

So me I think we need middle way but also be firm.
I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country.
But if living with them means peace I accept it.

We must be fair and just.
But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell.
They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself.



What a sensible post.
Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents.


Sensible? Avram's plan for a "2-state" solution is to keep 90% of Palestine for Jews, keep an indefinite blockade on the Gaza strip, and to keep Jewish soldiers protecting illegal settlements inside the West Bank forever!

Who wouldn't like to have foreign soldiers in their country protecting illegal colonialists forever?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #50 - May 25th, 2012 at 11:50am
 
falah wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 11:42am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 11:36am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm:
That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel.
But I do not believe it can work.

Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes.
Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control.
I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value.
For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas.

Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials.

But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza.

I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN.

So me I think we need middle way but also be firm.
I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country.
But if living with them means peace I accept it.

We must be fair and just.
But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell.
They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself.



What a sensible post.
Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents.


Sensible? Avram's plan for a "2-state" solution is to keep 90% of Palestine for Jews, keep an indefinite blockade on the Gaza strip, and to keep Jewish soldiers protecting illegal settlements inside the West Bank forever!

Who wouldn't like to have foreign soldiers in their country protecting illegal colonialists forever?


You'll find he is advocating that Palestinians get to keep control of Gaza and much of the West Bank.

The other side seem intent on the Jewish people controlling nothing.

See how he is more reasonable?

PS - As the West Bank is technically under emergency military control of Israel, the settlements were not illegal in law. No matter what the UN said. The United States backed that position.
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #51 - May 25th, 2012 at 11:59am
 
Who the heck cares what the yanks backed? Its not their land. Other ppl live there!

SOB
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #52 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:06pm
 
So Andrei would it be fair for the Palestinians to take 90% of the land and the Israelis to have only 10%?
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #53 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:09pm
 
falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm:
Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.


How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?

Quote:
Quran 5:51- Shakir
O you who believe! do not take the jews and christians for friends,they are friends of each other, and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend,then surely he is one of them,surely allah does not guide the unjust people
http:quran.com/5/51
Read all translations by ticking boxes on left side of page to dispel the mistranslation myth



Is Allah calling the jews unjust people, does this Islamic hatred of jews come from allah the most merciful?

If you quote a nice verse towards the jews does that mean it is a contradiction with 5:51 and what does sura 4:82 say about contradictions in the Quran?
http://quran.com/4/82

What does the hadith say about how jews are to be treated-
Quote:
Do not greet the jews and the christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it
http://sunnah.com/search/narrowest



Falah-Abu
If you saw a jew approaching you would you force them to the narrowest part of the path like the hadith says you should?

Do you think it is a nice thing to force someone to the narrowest part of the path because they follow a different religion?

How can muslims achieve peace with the jews when Islam forbids this?
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #54 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm
 
Quote:
How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?

The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.
Quote:
Is Allah calling the jews unjust people, does this Islamic hatred of jews come from allah the most merciful?
You know I hate to say the Quran made a good prediction but the Jews certainly did a good job of fulfilling the prophecy.
[quote]

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.
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falah
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #55 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:14pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:09pm:
falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm:
Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.


How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?


Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades.

Only one Israeli PM has made steps to make peace with the Palestinians, he was assassinated by a Jew for doing so.

Quote:
On the evening of November 4, 1995 (12th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar[24]), Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin


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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #56 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.



So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass?
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #57 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:28pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.



So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass?

Perhaps read your bible, or maybe just the rest of my post. Or do you know even know the basis of your own religion?
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #58 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:28pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 7:13am:
The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go.

Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position.

SOB


The world has never supported Israeli attrocities. They just find it hard to suggest a way forward, given people like Abu and Falah insist Palestine has not lost the war that ended decades ago and should never surrender because they will win soon enough.

Quote:
Islam permits the making of peace treaties.


Falah you only just finished explaining how meaningless such a treaty is from a Muslim.
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Re: Avram's beliefs
Reply #59 - May 25th, 2012 at 12:30pm
 
falah wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:14pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:09pm:
falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm:
Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.


How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?


Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades.

Only one Israeli PM has made steps to make peace with the Palestinians, he was assassinated by a Jew for doing so.

Quote:
On the evening of November 4, 1995 (12th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar[24]), Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin




The Egyptians want to get rid of their peace treaty with Israel  try google for that one falah.

Would you follow the hadith that says you should force a jew to the narrowest part of the path if one approached you?

That sounds like ideological thuggery to me.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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