Australian Politics Forum - Islam is a barrier to peace

Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26508 Australia	Re: Islam is a barrier to peace Reply #105 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:39pm Quote: THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN, WHY IS IT WRONG FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO TAKE BACK THEIR OWN ANCIENT HOMELAND, AND TO DEFEND IT BY FORCE OF ARMS ??? How is it the jews? Is someone else living there? SOB
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Islam is a barrier to peace Reply #106 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:44pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:39pm: Quote: THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN, WHY IS IT WRONG FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO TAKE BACK THEIR OWN ANCIENT HOMELAND, AND TO DEFEND IT BY FORCE OF ARMS ??? How is it the jews? Is someone else living there? SOB We have been on this land since the begin of time my friend.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49016 At my desk.	Re: Islam is a barrier to peace Reply #107 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:47pm Abu and Falah like to pretend there were no Jews at all in Israel and they all turned up in 1948 with guns and forced the Palestinians out.
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falah

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #108 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:51pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Quote:

The avram vs abu etc thing is not representative of all muslims or all jews. The facts are that israel wont give them a fair go.

It only takes a small number of Muslims like Abu and Falah to create the violence

It is evil-minded people like you Freeliar who condone and support the violent Israeli invasion and occupation of Palestinian land. You are the violent one.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Quote:

The Jews were protected in the Madina until they started molesting women, committing murders, helping enemies of the state and plotting to murder Prophet Muhammed, peace & blessing of God upon him

Yes Falah we know there is always an excuse when Muslims slaughter people and the Muslims are always blameless. Just like if a Palestinian launches rockets into Israel from his rooftop and his children die in the return fire, it is the Israeli's fault his children died.

Garbage Freeliar. Less than 0.1% of Palestinian population involved in firing a virtually useless homemade rocket is not the same as about 50% of a Jewish tribe being involved in a violent public homicide following a a Jewish sexual assault.

The Israelis can end the violence now by giving the Palestinians their land back. It is simple.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Islam absolves him of any responsibility for his own actions or the need to think for himself.

Freeliar lies again.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

The point is, the Jews obviously did not live in peace the whole time. But when it became obvious their only choice was submit or die, they chose to live. Muslims on the other hand choose to die.

Totally incorrect. The Jewish tribes of Madina were warned many times to honour their treaties and were given many warnings before they were expelled - and most of them were expelled not killed. They were expelled because they kept violating their promises and treaties. They were treated on a case by case basis, but each Jewish tribe in Madina eventually broke their treaties and acted treacherously - some more so than others.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

If those Jews had behaved anything at all like today's Palestinians, there would be no trace left of them.

There is a big difference Freeliar. The Muslims were invited to Madina. The Jews were one of the parties that agreed to invite the Muslims and live with Muhammed as a ruler. The Jews signed treaties in Madina promising not to attack the Muslim and help them defend the city. The Jews broke their promises and attacked Madina.

The Palestinian, on the other hand, never invited the Jews to come and rule Palestine.

The Jews offer provocation after provocation. Stealing land, stealing more land, bombing civilians. The Jews were offered peace many times but their greed prevented them from ever making a peace deal.

Put simply, the Israeli Jews will never make peace because, as their rejection of every peace demonstrates, their greed is overwhelming.

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falah

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #109 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:56pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:47pm:

Abu and Falah like to pretend there were no Jews at all in Israel and they all turned up in 1948 with guns and forced the Palestinians out.

It is true that the Muslims kindly allowed the Jews to return to Palestine after the Romans/Byzantine had expelled them for 600 years. But before the 20th century, there were only a few thousand Jews in palestine.

Even by 1948, the Jews did not own much land in Palestine as these maps demonstrate:

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #110 - May 24^th, 2012 at 6:59pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Quote:

THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN, WHY IS IT WRONG FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO TAKE BACK THEIR OWN ANCIENT HOMELAND, AND TO DEFEND IT BY FORCE OF ARMS ???

How is it the jews? Is someone else living there?

SOB

We have been on this land since the begin of time my friend.

The beginning of time? I thought the UN gave you israel in the 60s?

Or are you referring to one of the fictional books?

SOB

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falah

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #111 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:01pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

Quote:

But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us.

I wonder if Abu and Falah could reciprocate this gesture without qualifying it as temporary or some other silly attempt at deception.

I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land.

And go where?

Wherever they came from.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

What about the ones who didn't steal anything or who legitimately bought their land?

If they have not committed crimes, then could keep what they owned.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

Avram is not suggesting the Palestinians can only be neighbours if they move to Uzbhekistan. Peace can start as soon as the Palestinians give up on yours and Abu's lunatic belief that they are going to force the Israelis into the sea.

Freeliar, where did I ever say that was my belief. Don't you ever feel ashamed of lying?

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Islam is a barrier to peace Reply #112 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:05pm Wherever we come from? I was born in Tel Aviv. That is where I come from.
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freediver

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #113 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:05pm

Quote:

It is evil-minded people like you Freeliar who condone and support the violent Israeli invasion and occupation of Palestinian land. You are the violent one

I think they should make peace. You and Abu are the only ones calling for more war.

Quote:

Garbage Freeliar. Less than 0.1% of Palestinian population involved in firing a virtually useless homemade rocket is not the same as about 50% of a Jewish tribe being involved in a violent public homicide following a a Jewish sexual assault.

Wrong Falah. Your own examples back up my position. You are just too blind to see. According to you, a few isolated crimes, one or two dead Muslims, is enough excuse to kick the Jewish tribe out of the expanding empire

Quote:

The first tribe of Jews were expelled from Madina after molesting a Muslim woman and the mob-killing of a Muslim man openly in the jewish market.

But you expect Israel to politely put up with Palestinians firing every rocket they can get their hands on into Israel. It is a ludicrous double standard.

Quote:

The Israelis can end the violence now by giving the Palestinians their land back. It is simple.

Time for some perspective Falah. If those Jews had responded to Muhammed kicking them off their land by telling Muhammed he can only have peace with them if he gives it all back, what would Muhammed have done? He would have slaughtered every last one of them.

Quote:

and most of them were expelled not killed

How generous of the Muslims, only taking their land and not their lives. If only the Israelis were so generous to the Palestinians. Oops.

Quote:

They were treated on a case by case basis, but each Jewish tribe in Madina

So the Israelis should split the Palestinians up into tribes and boot the whole tribe out of Palestine if they don't heed the warnings not to fire rockets?

Quote:

There is a big difference Freeliar. The Muslims were invited to Madina

The Jews have been in Israel since before Islam existed. More Jews were invited into Israel. You appear to think that Muhammed was the only one who can invite people or be invited anywhere.

Quote:

The Jews signed treaties in Madina promising not to attack the Muslim and help them defend the city. The Jews broke their promises and attacked Madina.

Tell me falah, if the Jews had refused to sign those treaties on the grounds that they were about to have a great victory over Muhammed, what would muhammed have done? That's right, he would have slaughtered every last one of them. If only the Israelis were equally generous.

Your attempts to paint Muslims as the eternal victims and never at fault is getting absurd Falah. Eventually they have to take responsibility for their own actions.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #114 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:06pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:59pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Quote:

THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN, WHY IS IT WRONG FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO TAKE BACK THEIR OWN ANCIENT HOMELAND, AND TO DEFEND IT BY FORCE OF ARMS ???

How is it the jews? Is someone else living there?

SOB

We have been on this land since the begin of time my friend.

The beginning of time? I thought the UN gave you israel in the 60s?

Or are you referring to one of the fictional books?

SOB

The land of Israel and its people are centuries old.

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falah

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #115 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:10pm

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:06pm:

The Jewish Nadir and Quraiza tribes were permitted to stay until they broke their peace treaty and fought against the Muslims, with the Nadir tribe being the main offenders in breaking peace treaties with Muslims initially, after being pressured by the Meccans pagans who were furious at being defeated by Muslims at the Battle of Badr:

In the time of Mohammed, Jewish communities in Saudi Arabia were being oppressed and pillaged by moslems.

Why?

Simply because many of the Jews refused to relinquish Judaism, and adopt ISLAM.

This is false Yadda, the Jews had invited Muhammed to come to Madina and be their ruler. The Jews had signed treaties promising to protect the Islamic state. The Jews broke their treaties and attacked the Islamic state. This was grounds for their expulsion. Some of the Jewish tribes had been more treacherous than other. Despite their many crimes, Prophet Muhammed mercifully gave the tribe deemed least treacherous one last chance to stay if they converted to Islam. Some of the Jews dedcided to take up the offer and converted o Islam, others left.

This was all done on a case by case basis. Over the years, all the Jewish tribes in Madina proved themselves to be treacherous and broke their treaties with the Muslims.

There were other Jews living under the islamic state, like those in Yemen. The Yemeni Jews did not break treaties, and therefore were not expelled from Yemen. In fact most of the Yemeni jews converted to Islam, but many remained Jewish and till this day there are many Yemeni Jews.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Islam is a barrier to peace Reply #116 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:12pm There are 1.5m Arab Israelis.
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freediver

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Re: Islam is a barrier to peace
Reply #117 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:21pm

Quote:

Prophet Muhammed mercifully gave the tribe deemed least treacherous one last chance to stay if they converted to Islam.

Wow, that is generous. Why on earth would the Jews want their own homeland after being treated so well?

This 'converting to Islam' thing - is that any different to reverting? Does it carry with it a death penalty for changing their mind?

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