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The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey (Read 63794 times)
Soren
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #105 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:47am
 
falah wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:34am:
Soren wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 11:46pm:
falah wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 9:46pm:
if only the Europeans could conquer Arnhem Land




You do not realise it, but what you are saying is that Europeans could conquer your sorry, backward, Islamic Ottoman caliphate arses in the Middle East



You have heard of something called World War One? You know, armies mobilised and all that sort of thing.


Soren wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 11:46pm:
but were powerless against some spear-wielding, bare-arse Islamic Abos in Arnhem Land.



Unfortunately you are to retarded to follow the conversation, but it has been mentioned that the frontier war in Australia was mainly fought between Aborigines and settlers not the army.

Perhaps an exception was made in Tasmania, but this genocide caused the British to much embarrassment on the international stage, so it was decided to leave the genocide up to settlers with police backing them up occasionally when things got a little too hot them to handle.



Kicking the stuffing out of the Caliphate was easy because they had armies but kicking the sh!t out of the Abos was impossible because the army was busy kicking the sh!t out of the Caliphate.

Is that what you are saying? Sounds like it.




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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #106 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:58am
 
I just want to know why you keep talking about Europe and the old dart - this is Australia - if you cant embrace it and become it - get out.  But dont bring your provincial attitudes and conflicts from Europe and inflict it on our culture
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #107 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:11am
 
Some how he thinks I would side with him over a fellow Australian who happens to be Aborigine just because he comes from England or Europe?  Nah...dont think so - Aussies before foreigners.
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #108 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:23am
 
Winning war against people who not only don't have modern weapons, but don't even have a concept for war is not difficult. To celebrate it a hundred years later as a national triumph takes a real RW mindset.
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #109 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:24am
 
If you come from England and want to pick on third generation Chinese Australians...have a guess who I side with?  The Aussie - thats who...not you you pommy git.
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #110 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:30am
 
Quote:
FD - It is not absurd Grey. Even Falah managed to acknowledge this in discussing why there are so many large areas around Darwin that are not used for anything. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with grazing will understand the risks associated with waterlogged soil.


Digging drainage ditches is not uncommon in farming.
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #111 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 8:43am
 
Grey wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:30am:
Quote:
FD - It is not absurd Grey. Even Falah managed to acknowledge this in discussing why there are so many large areas around Darwin that are not used for anything. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with grazing will understand the risks associated with waterlogged soil.


Digging drainage ditches is not uncommon in farming.


It is uncommon when the water is a meter deep and there are crocodiles in it. This is not some little patch of bog in an otherwise well drained area. As Falah put it, it is "large areas of flat land" under monsoonal rain. A lot of it is only just above sea level. Think about it Grey. Have a look back at Falah's own evidence of where they graze cattle. There is a consistent pattern of staying away from the wettest coastal areas, regardless of aboriginal activity. Even around Darwin there are massive areas that are not used for anything at all, in between the even bigger areas of nature reserves and aboriginal land.

Quote:
Winning war against people who not only don't have modern weapons, but don't even have a concept for war is not difficult. To celebrate it a hundred years later as a national triumph takes a real RW mindset.


There was no war Grey. The only person claiming a victory is Falah. According to him that is the only reason why there is a patch of aboriginal land in a region that is otherwise used for various reasons like nothing, nature reserves, aboriginal land, and cattle farms the size of european countries.
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« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2012 at 8:49am by freediver »  

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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #112 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:58am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 8:43am:
Grey wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:30am:
Quote:
FD - It is not absurd Grey. Even Falah managed to acknowledge this in discussing why there are so many large areas around Darwin that are not used for anything. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with grazing will understand the risks associated with waterlogged soil.


Digging drainage ditches is not uncommon in farming.


Even around Darwin there are massive areas that are not used for anything at all, in between the even bigger areas of nature reserves and aboriginal land.


Darwin is hundreds of kilomtres from Arnhem Land. It is the least productive land that Europeans had to be content with due to hostile Indigenous people the more productive Arnhem Land.

Did you even bother to read the newspaper article about how successful the Florida cattle station was?

If you knew anything about Arnhem Land you would know that the the flat land is the inland plateau. Much of the coastal areas have gently sloping hills.

Only about 1% of Arnhem Land is swamplands . Compare that to the Darwin area that the Europeans had to be content with which is nearly half swamplands.





freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 8:43am:
Quote:
Winning war against people who not only don't have modern weapons, but don't even have a concept for war is not difficult. To celebrate it a hundred years later as a national triumph takes a real RW mindset.


There was no war Grey. The only person claiming a victory is Falah.



Go read some history books you ignoramus.

Quote:
On December 1, 1826, the Tasmanian Colonial Times declared that:

    We make no pompous display of Philanthropy. We say this unequivocally SELF DEFENSE IS THE FIRST LAW OF NATURE. THE GOVERNMENT MUST REMOVE THE NATIVES – IF NOT, THEY WILL BE HUNTED DOWN LIKE WILD BEASTS, AND DESTROYED!
    – Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser, 1826


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_War
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #113 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm
 
Quote:
Did you even bother to read the newspaper article about how successful the Florida cattle station was?


According to your article it had less than 1/10th as many cattle as another existing farm you used as an example and tried to portray as small, and which supports only one family.

Quote:
Only about 1% of Arnhem Land is swamplands


So you keep saying. You even posted a map purporting to show all the swamps up north, but went all silent when I asked you where it was from.


How much money is currently made from cattle farming the Yolngu area?

Falah, just about every example you give of how suitable the area is for European farming methods merely demonstrates your complete ignorance of what makes good farmland. You have a particular focus on pre-agricultural assessments made from ignorance. The letter you posted explaining the cause of failure even listed climate as the dominant reason. Your attempts show a desperate search for any evidence that goes against the grain, no matter how flawed or dated, and a deliberate rejection of the overwhelming evidence of the marginal suitability of the area for farming.

Why are you relying on the assessments made before farming was attempted rather than the assessments made after the farms failed?

Why do you think the actual farmers themselves listed climate as the dominant cause of failure?

Why is the example of Broome not pertinent? Is it because of the only two examples you have of areas that had frequent contact, this one demonstrates the exact opposite of what you are arguing? It is about the only significant white settlement in thousands of kilometers of coastline from Darwin to Perth - coastline where aborigines that had even less contact with maccassans got huge tracts of land handed to them much earlier?

Do you still think southern aborigines would have been better off if they were more hostile and violent? Why have you gone silent on this comparison that you started out with?

Are you aware of the common themes in Australian farming and fisheries of areas that initially appeared fertile but turned out not be be so?

Why do you think the areas of the NT that are farmed have such an extremely low population density and such enormous farms, many the size of european countries?

What fraction of the 'big buffalo leather industry' in the NT came from farmed buffalo? Why do you think it would be profitable to farm an animal that is already a pest that people are trying to get rid of?

Do you understand the difference in suitability for wet tropical areas between cattle and water buffalo?

Are you aware of any health problems experience by cattle in waterlogged soil?

What do you think happens when monsoonal rain falls on "large areas of flat land" in crocodile country?

Why do you think the green looking plain you used as evidence has no trees on it?

Why do you think the aborigines in your example would only bring in cattle to graze on their land at a time when the cattle were going dirt cheap (due to the export ban) if the government helped pay for it?

How many of the '50 jobs' in your example are full time?

Can you explain how massacring aborigines helped the aborigines and drove the white people off?

Why did you use a map that deliberately left off the index showing the large areas around Darwin that are not used for anything? It also left off the other enormous areas of the NT assigned to aboriginal or conservation use.

Why do you think there is an enormous nature reserve (one of the largest in the country) between Darwin and the Yolngu areas? Were we so scared of the aborigines we needed a few hundred kilometers of no mans land?

Where did you get your map of northern swamps from? Do you think it is complete?

Do you still think that the colour on google maps is a good indication of suitability for european farming methods? Why do you think there is a consistent trend in your own evidence for the cattle farms to be south of the wettest areas, regardless of aboriginal hostility?

Do you still think that the potential for twenty farms in an area the size of Tasmania indicates fertile land?

Why did you give Mildura as an example of how the southeast also has a low population density in fertile land, when this one town has a population roughly equal to one third of the NT's population outside of Darwin, including aborigines?

Why do you think Indonesian farms indicate that the NT is suitable for european farming methods?

Did you consider at all the example of the Ord River Scheme?

Are you aware of any factor other than farm proifitability per unit area that is a better predictor of population density?

Are you aware of the experience of south African farmers as they attempted to colonise areas further north?

Why do you think that the example of the US and British armies in North America getting involved in disputes and moving the natives on to the least fertile areas supports your argument? Do you think our army would have been too scared of the aborigines, or would have been defeated by them?


Was it just an undergrad thesis?


Doesn't it simply make more sense that the remoteness of these tribes above anything else allowed them to get away with their hostility and violence, rather than causing it?
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #114 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:08pm
 
[url]Did you consider at all the example of the Ord River Scheme?[/url]

A friend of mine was for a time Australia's leading agricultural economist. He has worked overseas for most of his life, " I prefer to work for people whose economies are basket cases rather than people who are determined to make their economy a basket case." He's currently in the Southern Caucus, but has worked in Africa & South America in some of the most challenging environments on the planet.

He has said of the Ord. "It is impossible not too make money out of such an environment. The problems of the Ord are all about corporate greed. If the place had been opened to, and settled by refugees it would be a paradise."
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #115 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:11pm
 
Quote:
He has said of the Ord. "It is impossible not too make money out of such an environment. The problems of the Ord are all about corporate greed. If the place had been opened to, and settled by refugees it would be a paradise."


I see, so corporate greed is preventing corporations from making money where it is impossible not to make money?

Are you sure he is an economist?
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #116 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:41pm
 
Falah - the example you gave earlier of a farm and meatworks providing jobs for aborigines in Ahrnem land. Is it true that this would not have been possible without a massive handout from the government? Do you think European immigrants in the 1800s got such massive handouts, or did the government decide to let farms survive based on their own profitability?

Also, rather than being on the rolling hills or fertile plateau you talk about, it appears to be down on a crocodile infested floodplain that is under water for most of the year. Can you explain why aborigines would set up their flagship cattle farm on a floodplain that they can't let the cattle on for a big chunk of the year, rather than the more fertile and suitable lands you described?

The farm is not even in the Yolngu area. Nor is the other 'planned' farm you used as an example, which is not even going ahead despite the opportunity that arose with the drop in cattle prices, because the aborigine promoting the idea could not get the government to give him a bag of money.

Is it true that the plateau you described is referred to by local aborigines as the 'stone country'?

If the land is so suitable for farming, why is it that even the current owners have such trouble turning a profit from it?
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« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:54pm by freediver »  

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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #117 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 3:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm:
Quote:
Did you even bother to read the newspaper article about how successful the Florida cattle station was?


According to your article it had less than 1/10th as many cattle as another existing farm you used as an example and tried to portray as small, and which supports only one family.


Don't lie Freeliar, the farm that you are referrring to is huge, and I never said it was small. It is one of the biggest farms in Australia. Just another example of how Islam-haters like you tell lies.



freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm:
How much money is currently made from cattle farming the Yolngu area?


How much money would you expect to be made in an area where farmers were forced out of?



freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm:
Falah, just about every example you give of how suitable the area is for European farming methods merely demonstrates your complete ignorance of what makes good farmland. You have a particular focus on pre-agricultural assessments made from ignorance.



Don't lie Freeliar. I posted a newspaper article from an eyewitness saying how well the Farm in Eastern Arnhem Land was doing.

Did you even bother to read the descriptions of how big the fruit was and how much better the trees grew in Arnhem Land than the Darwin area?






freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm:
Do you still think southern aborigines would have been better off if they were more hostile and violent? Why have you gone silent on this comparison that you started out with?

If they had have killed Captain Cook from the start, they would probably be a lot better off.


freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:35pm:
Why do you think the areas of the NT that are farmed have such an extremely low population density and such enormous farms, many the size of european countries?


You retard, population density has nothing to with farming viablity. There are farms in areas with much less population density. So farms are clearly viable in lowly populated areas.






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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #118 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 3:37pm
 
Freeliar, the lying retard seems to have missed this newspaper article about a farm that had managed to ward off Aboriginal resistance for three years in East Arnhem Land, so I will post again:

falah wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 10:42pm:
Here is an account of Florida Station in East Arnhem Land after three years of operation:

Quote:
A VISIT TO FLORIDA CATTLE STATION NORTHERN TERRITORY.

[From our special reporter}

Leaving Port Darwin on October 27 in Messrs. Millar Brothers' steamer Active, we enjoyed a very pleasant run. On the 30th we sighted the Crocodile Islands, which lie about 20 miles from the land to the north of Glyde's Inlet. We were not Long in making the mouth of the inlet, and steamed up to an anchorage within about & miles of the station. Glvde's Inlet is about 3O miles in length from the mouth to the head of navigation, carrying good bold water all the way, with a width varying from about a quarter of a mile at the mouth to about 80 yards at the higher landing, where the smaller boats from Palmerston discharged station stores, at a distance of 4 or 5 miles from the station...The steaming distance from Port Darwin was computed to be about 350 miles. The Florida, Station is built on the further side of a rise from the inlet...We soon covered the 8 or 9 miles intervening between the lauding and the station, and were agreeably surprised by the appearance of the homestead. The main building ("Government House"), in fact all the station buildings, are substantially made of sawn timber, principally cypress pine, paperbark, and ironwood. The site has been admirably chosen. It is on a small hill, the end of a small range of rising ground, about 150 yards from and above a horseshoe lagoon that partially surrounds this spur of the range. It looks down on the station garden and horse paddock, and the rich grassy plains beyond. While the cook waa busy converting the flour and other stores we had just brought into toothsome viands we discussed the merits of some very fine pineapples, bananas, papayas or pawpaws, mulberries, guavas, pomegranates, melons, and passion fruit, the produce of the station garden, with which our table was laden. The rest of our stay at the homestead was devoted to an inspection of the stock...We found the cattle, with a few exceptions, in good condition...Mr. Macartney and his Manager, both of whom have had a very extended experience among cattle...Our inspection of the country was most satisfactory, grand richly-grassed plains, intersected every few miles by permanent creeks, with here and there large lagoons, proved to be permanent by the number and size of their finny denizens. The plains are divided, or framed as it were, by what appear to be gently rising hills...The tablelands are well watered by permanent creeks, which are kept always running by the frequent rains with which this part of the country is blessed; in fact so frequent are they that it may fairly be said that there is no dry season here. A record of the rainfall has not been kept, but Mr. Randell has noted that during the two years and four months or so in which Florida has been occupied, the longest spell of dry weather experienced was two months. In many particulars
its climate presents a marked and very favourable contrast to that of Port Darwin.
That very excellent heatgauge, butter, testifies by its solidity and rich colour that Florida must- be many degrees cooler than Port Darwin The luxuriance of the vegetation is simply wonderful. Mr. Macartney, who spent many years in the neighbourhood of some of the sugar districts of Queensland, feels confident that sugar will do splendidly on Florida.

The block of country which is comprised In the Florida Run contains an area of about 10,000 square miles, extending front a short distance west of the mouth of the Blyth River, eastward to the Gulf of Carpentaria, embracing the whole of the coastline,. with an average depth inland of about 50 miles. It takes in the Gulf coast from Caps Wessel to about the north end of Blue Mud Bay.  Travellers who have explored the coast and made short trips inland speak very highly of it. It is thought that the auriferous country that two parties of prospectors from Port Darwin, one by Bea and one by land, went in search of some years ago near Blue Mud Bay, but could not reach because of the hostility of the natives, lies in the ranges some distance to the north-west of Blue Mud Bay...
the percentage' of natural increase [of the cattle herd] had been very high and the young stock fine and strong. One point about the breeding cattle worthy of note is that they are all fertile and rear their calves.
There are about 100 well-bred useful horses on the station, all in first-rate order,
bearing eloquent testimony to the excellence of their pastures
.
The stockyards are of a decidedly modern and permanent character, well and substantially built cf bloodwood posts and paperbark rails, with good strong workmanlike gates...

...Returning to the station it struck us as remarkable and worthy of note that the plain is covered with wild rice, whether indigenous or not we cannot say. It may be possible that the Malays, who spend some months every year on this coast beche-de-mer fishing, have dropped or planted some paddy, and that this is the result. There also are found large numbers of feathered game, amongst others bustards, scrub turkeys, geese, pigmy geese, ducks, jungle fowl, emus, native companions, jaberoos, three sorts of ibis, two sorts of cranes, several kinds of pigeons, snipe, quail, parrots, cockatoos, and numberless smaller birds. There are a few kangaroos, pretty large, and very fat— vexy different in this respect from their southern congeners. The lagoons and rivers teem with fish, most of which are similar to those in Queensland waters...

...the natives along this coast are amongst the most dangerous and hostile in the Territory.

The absence of white ants will prove an especial boon to the station garden, or it will allow of the growth to maturity of the, various fruit-trees that in Port Darwin are piped out and weakened by the ant, and blown down by the first puff of wind.
Among the trees in the Florida garden that seldom get a chance to mature in Darwin were noticed mangoes, guavas, papaya, oranges, lemons, cocoanuts, dates, tamarinds, and one or two other kinds of Chinese fruits.
The garden also contains pomegranates, figs, sisyphus, mulberries, bananas, custard apples, pineapples, passion fruit, water and sweet melons. Among the vegetables are yams, sweet potatoes, English potatoes, eschalotts, radishes, 'long reds,' 12 to 15 inches long and 3 inches thick, 'turnip' radishes bigger than ordinary turnips,
splendid lettuces with big solid hearts — quite a treat after the small leafy ones in Port Darwin — cucumbers up to 6 lb. weight,
Chinese cabbage, English and Chinese beans, pie-melons, pumpkins of two kinds —
one pumpkin vine yielded 622 lb. of fruit. Watermelons run up to 20 to 30 lb
. weight and solid right through ; they bear all the year round. Two years ago they received a lot of fruit trees and plants from the Government Experimental Garden at Fannie Bay; amongst them were three rooted cuttings of mulberries, two of which died, and about fifty pineapple plants. When the only mulberry started into growth cuttings were made, and there are now fifteen trees, some of which are from 12 to 15 feet high, and cover a diameter of fully 20 feet. They are all loaded with fruit, rich black mulberries, quite equal for size and flavour to those grown in the southern colonies, but the great beauty about these trees is that they bear for nine months in the year, resting in June, July, and August. The fifty pineapple plants have increased to over 700, nearly all in bearing, some having two or three pines on a plant; they bear all the year round; some of the fruit taken as they came weighed 5 lb. each. With plenty of fruit all through the year, plenty of fresh milk and butter, game and fish in profusion, and
cool breezes all the time, it is little wonder that all hands are healthy.
'
Shocked Shocked Shocked Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  Cool

[South Australian Register (Adelaide, SA), Thursday 5 January 1888]

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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #119 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 6:21pm
 
Quote:
If you knew anything about Arnhem Land you would know that the the flat land is the inland plateau.


Is this the 'stone country' Falah? Land that is even less suitable for grazing than the flood plains below it? Have you ever seen this country?

Quote:
Much of the coastal areas have gently sloping hills.


So why not farm there rather than the flood plains?

Quote:
Don't lie Freeliar, the farm that you are referrring to is huge, and I never said it was small. It is one of the biggest farms in Australia. Just another example of how Islam-haters like you tell lies.


I said it was huge. On the other hand, this is what you said about it, when you thought it would suit your argument to attempt to play down the size:

Quote:
Arnhem Land is 100,000 km2. The country is somewhat similar to that shown on the TV show Keeping Up With The Jones'. That family owned only 5000 km2 of land near the NT/WA border. Looked they were doing well. They can even afford multiple helicopters and lots of equipment, must be profitable.


I even pulled you up on how you phrased this at the time - as usual, no comment.

Quote:
How much money would you expect to be made in an area where farmers were forced out of?


Are the aborigines forcing out aboriginal farmers too? Is it farming that Islam made them hostile to? Why is it that the only examples of aborigines attempting to farm this land now rely on government handouts and are both on the boundaries of the land, well away from the Yolngu areas you are claiming to be fertile?

Quote:
Don't lie Freeliar. I posted a newspaper article from an eyewitness saying how well the Farm in Eastern Arnhem Land was doing.


From someone with a grand total of zero experience in farming? Can you please explain why this is somehow more relevant than all the experience of people who actually attempted to farm the land - including the current aboriginal owners?

Quote:
If they had have killed Captain Cook from the start, they would probably be a lot better off.


You think that would have been the end of it?

Quote:
You retard, population density has nothing to with farming viablity.


So why is it so closely correlated with farm profitability per unit area? Why are you unable to come up with any other factor that is a better predictor of population density? Why is it that the example you gave of a low population area on fertile citrus orchards was a town of 30000 people - roughly 1/3 of the entire NT population outside of Darwin, including aborigines?

This was you previous attempt to get your head around this concept:

Quote:
Furthermore, population density does not determine the viability of farmland.


At least you are getting closer now to figuring out what I am telling you.

Quote:
There are farms in areas with much less population density.


Like Mildura? Or like the areas further south with enourmous expanses of flat land that does not sit under water for half a year and where it is easy for one family to manage an area the size of a small european country?
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