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The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey (Read 64050 times)
freediver
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #180 - Jul 7th, 2012 at 7:23pm
 
Quote:
They walked.


Can you explain how they walked over the formiddable sea obstacle in your quote?

Quote:
The map shows the probable extent of land and water at the time of the last glacial maximum and when the sea level was probably more than 150m lower than today; it illustrates the formidable sea obstacle that migrants would have faced.


Quote:
The Macassans usually camped close to the sea shore, Their huts and camp site are all located within close proximity to the sea.


Oh, so the Maccassans left those shelfish piles. What about the aborigines?

Quote:
The Macassans only spent about four or five months per year in Australia.Doesn't make sense to bring domesticated animals that you couldn't look after most of the year.


Falah, you have been explaining that they intermarried. That some aborigines moved to Indonesia and some Indonesians moved to Australia. Why did none of this involve the introduction of plant or animal cropping? It was widespread everywhere else - across PNG and Polynesia (yes those shellfish eating Islanders) and even New Zealanders.
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falah
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #181 - Jul 7th, 2012 at 7:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 7:23pm:
Quote:
They walked.


Can you explain how they walked over the formiddable sea obstacle in your quote?

Quote:
The map shows the probable extent of land and water at the time of the last glacial maximum and when the sea level was probably more than 150m lower than today; it illustrates the formidable sea obstacle that migrants would have faced.



Where is that formiddable sea obstacle Freeliar?

...


Obviously people were able to walk from the island of New Guinea to Arnhem Land. Do you think that they dragged their canoes hundreds of kilometres across New Guinea and into Australia?


Even if they had arrived by canoe, seeing that Australian Aborigines migrated to Australia thousands of years ago, don't you think that those canoes would be rotten by now?


The fact is that Aboriginal dugout canoes were only found in areas that had contact with Macassan traders. Primitive canoes were found elsewhere, but they would not be considered sea worthy.


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Karnal
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #182 - Jul 7th, 2012 at 8:36pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 12:56am:
omg mate are you still going on about this

shut up, you are a deluded reigious fanatic and this only makes sense to only you, you only go on about it over and over and cling to it religiously because this narrative portrays islam in a positive light (despite the fact that you going on about it and clinging to it religiously is actually depicting your religion in a negative light)


I guess this is what they call peer review.
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freediver
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #183 - Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:41pm
 
Quote:
Even if they had arrived by canoe, seeing that Australian Aborigines migrated to Australia thousands of years ago, don't you think that those canoes would be rotten by now?


Falah don't you think it is the technology that matters, not the artefact? Did the Macassan's sell canoes to the Yolngu but never explain how to make them?

Was it only the Macassans that ate the seafood and left the shell piles behind? What did the Yolngu eat?

Are you saying that despite the intermarrying, migration in both directions, introduction to the Yolngu of culture, religion, technology, social norms etc, none of them thought to introduce any kind of agriculture? Surely that would be an inevitable part of the exchanges?

Your link about the introduction of Tamarind trees is broken. Did the aborigines take up farming these trees, or did they merely grow wild from discarded seeds?

When you say they introduced rice and fruit, did they merely import it for immediate use or for bartering?
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falah
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #184 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:41pm:
Quote:
Even if they had arrived by canoe, seeing that Australian Aborigines migrated to Australia thousands of years ago, don't you think that those canoes would be rotten by now?


Falah don't you think it is the technology that matters, not the artefact? Did the Macassan's sell canoes to the Yolngu but never explain how to make them?

Was it only the Macassans that ate the seafood and left the shell piles behind? What did the Yolngu eat?

Are you saying that despite the intermarrying, migration in both directions, introduction to the Yolngu of culture, religion, technology, social norms etc, none of them thought to introduce any kind of agriculture? Surely that would be an inevitable part of the exchanges?



The Yolngu became traders and leasers of land. The sea cucumber trade with macassans made them relatively rich compared to inland Aborigines. The Yolngu were supplied with foods such as flour, rice, tea and sugar by Macassans. The Yolngu collected export products such as sea cucumber, tortoise shell and bees wax during the off season and sold these items to Macassans who then employed Yolngu during trepanging season, and paid tribute to the Yolngu for use of their lands.

The trade with Macassans made the Yolngu rich, and they were able to barter the products they gained from Macassan trade, such as metal axes, with inland Aborigines who produced tools such as boomerangs and spears.

The Yolngu acquired important fishing tools from the Macassans like dugout canoes and fishing nets, which enabled the Yolngu to increase their fishing capabilities. Dugout canoes, unknown in Australia prior to the commencement of the Macassan trade, enabled Aborigines to travel up to 500km across seas.

During the Macassan trading, the Yolngu were supplied with foreign foods, and also had access to better tools for hunting and fishing.




freediver wrote on Jul 7th, 2012 at 9:41pm:
When you say they introduced rice and fruit, did they merely import it for immediate use or for bartering?


Rice was found growing in Arnhem Land by the earliest settlers. The only recorded source of rice into Arnhem Land prior to European settlement is from Macassan traders. Tamarind trees were brought by Macassan sailors to fight scurvy. The Macassan traders also used it to flavour their cooking. Most of the known Macassan trading camps along Australia's northern coast have tamarind trees growing - in fact the trees have been used by archaeologists to identify places to find artefacts related to the Macassan trade.

Other trees found at macassan campsites include coconut and betel nut trees.



http://austhrutime.com/macassan_traders.htm


The tamarind fruit became an important part of Aboriginal culture as the Yothu Yindi song Macassan Crew demonstrates:

Quote:


Yothu Yindi :: :: Macassan crew



Yendharama birrapirra
 
   Tradewinds blow
   The southern cross
   Taking their prau (perahu/Indonesian trading vessel)
   Across the sea
   They came in peace
   Through the Ashmore Reef
   Smoke and steel
   And the Tamarind seed
 
   Steer it up right
   Steer it up true
   Navigate the morning star
   Brave Macassan crew
 
   Sailed on through
   The hole in the wall
   The place we call Rarrakala
   To the shores of the far North East
   Smoke, steel and the Tamarind tree
 
   Gapala Mangatjay
   Gapala Gurrumulnga
 
   Navigate the morning star
   Brave Macassan crew
 
   Miyaman Matjala,
   Miyaman Gurrumulnga,
   Daynggatjing Garrnhdalu,
   Daymulung Wila'wila'yun,
 
   Miyaman Mangatjay,
   Miyaman Gurrumulngu
   Daynggatjing Garrnhdalu,
   Daymulung Wila'wila'yun,
 
   Steer it up right
   Steer it up true
   Navigate the morning star
   Brave Macassan crew




Quote:
Tamarind

"Tamarind seed" refers to the careful introduction of a fruit tree species. This was not done lightly, in the same manner as the European introduction of thousands of exotic pests that now cost the government four billion dollars each year to control. Scholars, farmers and botanists from the two cultures tested, examined and exchanged extensive knowledge about the Tamarind and its habitat before deciding to introduce it. It was carefully integrated with the local ecology over time, then interwoven with the lore of the place, and became a component of the agricultural industry and economy in northern Australia to such an extent that it is now regarded as a native plant by Aboriginal peoples. The first tree was planted on the beach, at the site of the Macassan embassy. It is still there.


http://suite101.com/article/macassancrew-a923

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freediver
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #185 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:05pm
 
Quote:
Rice was found growing in Arnhem Land by the earliest settlers.


Growing wild, being harvested wild, or being farmed?

Quote:
Most of the known Macassan trading camps along Australia's northern coast have tamarind trees growing


Wild?

Quote:
Other trees found at macassan campsites include coconut and betel nut trees.


Don't coconuts make their way all around tropical shorelines without the help of people? Are you trying to credit them with a coincidence, or was there some kind of deliberate planting?

Quote:
Scholars, farmers and botanists from the two cultures tested, examined and exchanged extensive knowledge about the Tamarind and its habitat before deciding to introduce it.


LOL. We have gone from sea traders on the fringe of civilisation to scholars? Can you explain why they decided to limit it to the tamarind tree? Can you tell us more about the aboriginal scholars, farmers and botanists? When you say they tested, examined and exchanged knowledge, do you mean they sat round a campfire eating it, looked at the seeds, and the Macassans suggested they plant it in an appropriate place?

Falah, you seem to be missing the most improtant point here. Why, despite the extent of the contact, was there no kind of agricultural technology transfer? They introduced lots of important technology and customs. Normally agriculture would be the first on that list. Did the Maccassans want to make the Yolngu dependent on the trade and hence decided to limit it to the introduction of the tamarind tree? Or was it more case of trying and failing with every other type of plant and animal that was farmed back home?
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falah
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #186 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:05pm:
Falah, you seem to be missing the most improtant point here. Why, despite the extent of the contact, was there no kind of agricultural technology transfer?


I have already explained that the Yolngu people had plenty of food due to the Macassan trade.

Arguing the point with Freeliar here here just seems to go round and round in circles.




Freeliar is a Zionist deceiver.

Freeliar's Sustainability Party is a Zionist sham front. Nobody should be deceived by it.iFreeliar do you know Sven Weiner?



Ethics and Sustainability Party to court


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-02-23/ethics-and-sustainability-party-to-court/3...




Red-faced at court blue


...

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2011/12/02/281531_scalesofjustice.html
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #187 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:32pm
 
Quote:
The sea cucumber trade with macassans made them relatively rich compared to inland Aborigines.


How far inland were the 'inland aborigines'?

Quote:
I have already explained that the Yolngu people had plenty of food due to the Macassan trade.


So the Macassans made the Yolngu reliant on the trade for survival rather than introducing any kind of agriculture that might make them self reliant?

Why would they be trading for mere food? That seems kind of silly for a group of people who you described as living in a tropical garden of eden, but who would have had great use for tools, technology, and plants and animals to grow? It would make more sense for the Yolngu to be supplying the Macassans with food, if what you have said about the place is correct. That is how it normally worked with sailors.
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falah
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Re: The glorious aboriginal muslim victory over whitey
Reply #188 - Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:55pm
 
Look [ * ] , conversations with you just go around in circles.



Just admit what the real reason is that you are out to portray Muslims in a negative light.

Would your employers be interested to know about the crap you post on this forum?

[* EDITED - FALAH PLEASE DON'T POST PERSONAL INFORMATION OR THREATS ANYWHERE ON THIS WEBSITE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE.]
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« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2012 at 8:32am by freediver »  

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