Australian Politics Forum - 61% of voters want Turnbull.

Andrei.Hicks

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #15 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:52am

Maqqa wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:47am:

But to be fair Turnbull is not in favour of a carbon tax either.

He favours a trading scheme which would see the price way down around what the EU has?

yes - but most Australian wouldn't know this.

Most Australians are as thick as horse-sh*t Macca.
I wouldn't go with that line mate.

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john_g

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #16 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

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Maqqa

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #17 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

You are not that stupid skippy

The next election will be on the poisonous Carbon Tax. Getting rid off Gillard and keeping the Carbon Tax is like not washing the poison chalice and giving it to the next person.

Turnbull is behind the ETS. Which will be an evolved version of the Carbon Tax in 2015 under Labor.

Putting in Turnbull means the ALP can say that the LIBs support the Carbon Tax

As I said - the LIBs are now united behind the anti-carbon tax stance. Which has delivered them the polls results of 57/43.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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skippy.

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #18 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

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john_g

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #19 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

Of course, just playing devil's advocate. Wink

I really want Turnbull to return, too, as much as you., but just don't see it happening.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #20 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

The thing was skippy that I would argue a different PM would still be there.
Problem was that Rudd was so disliked inside of his own party, that he only needed a hint of polling drop and they were all over him to cut him loose and settle some scores.

Gillard's polling has been beyond atrocious but because she is popular within her party (but she struggles massively to translate to the populace) she holds on.

Rudd is the better option for me than Gillard and Abbott but that choice is unpalatable to many inside of the ALP.

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skippy.

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #21 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

You are not that stupid skippy

The next election will be on the poisonous Carbon Tax. Getting rid off Gillard and keeping the Carbon Tax is like not washing the poison chalice and giving it to the next person.

Turnbull is behind the ETS. Which will be an evolved version of the Carbon Tax in 2015 under Labor.

Putting in Turnbull means the ALP can say that the LIBs support the Carbon Tax

As I said - the LIBs are now united behind the anti-carbon tax stance. Which has delivered them the polls results of 57/43.

Before Abbotts SCARE and PROPAGANDA campaign a price on carbon was accepted and welcome by 60 % of Australians, now we are pandering to the earth is flat lobby. Turnbull as leader will not lose the Libs votes, it will GAIN them votes.

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john_g

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #22 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

The thing was skippy that I would argue a different PM would still be there.
Problem was that Rudd was so disliked inside of his own party, that he only needed a hint of polling drop and they were all over him to cut him loose and settle some scores.

Gillard's polling has been beyond atrocious but because she is popular within her party (but she struggles massively to translate to the populace) she holds on.

Rudd is the better option for me than Gillard and Abbott but that choice is unpalatable to many inside of the ALP.

Which would you prefer, though, Andrei?:

Scenario 1 - Rudd/ALP - with carbon tax.
Scenario 2 - Abbott/LNP - without carbon tax.

I do find it weird how Gillard is so popular with the party, and so loathed by the people, and Rudd is exactly the opposite.

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Maqqa

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #23 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:04pm

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

You are not that stupid skippy

The next election will be on the poisonous Carbon Tax. Getting rid off Gillard and keeping the Carbon Tax is like not washing the poison chalice and giving it to the next person.

Turnbull is behind the ETS. Which will be an evolved version of the Carbon Tax in 2015 under Labor.

Putting in Turnbull means the ALP can say that the LIBs support the Carbon Tax

As I said - the LIBs are now united behind the anti-carbon tax stance. Which has delivered them the polls results of 57/43.

Before Abbotts SCARE and PROPAGANDA campaign a price on carbon was accepted and welcome by 60 % of Australians, now we are pandering to the earth is flat lobby. Turnbull as leader will not lose the Libs votes, it will GAIN them votes.

Carbon Tax is more poisonous to the ALP than Workchoices was to the LIBs

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #24 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

You are not that stupid skippy

The next election will be on the poisonous Carbon Tax. Getting rid off Gillard and keeping the Carbon Tax is like not washing the poison chalice and giving it to the next person.

Turnbull is behind the ETS. Which will be an evolved version of the Carbon Tax in 2015 under Labor.

Putting in Turnbull means the ALP can say that the LIBs support the Carbon Tax

As I said - the LIBs are now united behind the anti-carbon tax stance. Which has delivered them the polls results of 57/43.

Nobody is going to get rid of it. They will @ most rename it to something else.

SOB

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Maqqa

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #25 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

The thing was skippy that I would argue a different PM would still be there.
Problem was that Rudd was so disliked inside of his own party, that he only needed a hint of polling drop and they were all over him to cut him loose and settle some scores.

Gillard's polling has been beyond atrocious but because she is popular within her party (but she struggles massively to translate to the populace) she holds on.

Rudd is the better option for me than Gillard and Abbott but that choice is unpalatable to many inside of the ALP.

Which would you prefer, though, Andrei?:

Scenario 1 - Rudd/ALP - with carbon tax.
Scenario 2 - Abbott/LNP - without carbon tax.

I do find it weird how Gillard is so popular with the party, and so loathed by the people, and Rudd is exactly the opposite.

Ideally it would be Turnbull/LNP - without the carbon tax.

But we know Turnbull's stance on the ETS so it ain't gunna happen.

I think Hockey will emerge as the other candidate

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skippy.

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #26 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:06pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

john_g wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Quote:

Given Turnbull's pro-carbon tax stance there's no way he will be back in. It will give Labor a platform to launch their next election.

Never say he wont be back. If Gillard is dumped, and I think she will be, so will Abbott be. Because no matter what spin you put on it, Rudd will beat Abbott,and the Libs know it. Turnbull will be the Libs only choice, IF they want government. Abbott NEVER beat Rudd as preferred PM and the Libs were NEVER ahead on TPP under Rudd, thems the facts.

Technically, that's not true, skip. Before the leadership challenge earlier in the year, there were two polls conducted; one for if Gillard stayed, the other for if Rudd were re-instated. The first had the Coalition leading 54-46, the second a much closer 51-49.

I don't think that Labor can win, irrespective of leader or anything else, unless they repeal the carbon tax. A change of leader, particularly Rudd, however, could/would make it much closer.

That poll you mention was a HYPOTHETICAL, in ALL the polls while Rudd was leader he NEVER lost a preferred PM or TPP.

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

The thing was skippy that I would argue a different PM would still be there.
Problem was that Rudd was so disliked inside of his own party, that he only needed a hint of polling drop and they were all over him to cut him loose and settle some scores.

Gillard's polling has been beyond atrocious but because she is popular within her party (but she struggles massively to translate to the populace) she holds on.

Rudd is the better option for me than Gillard and Abbott but that choice is unpalatable to many inside of the ALP.

True he was dumped when his polls were heading south, but they never hit as low as Abbott. You're preaching to the converted,Andrei, I would vote for Turnbull over Rudd anyday. My argument is if Gillard is dumped for Rudd, thats the best chance Australia has for a return to Turnbull. I say the best chance for Australia because I believe there is Turnbull and clean air between any other worthy of the PM ship.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #27 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:07pm

I think Labor's polling would be nowhere near where they are even with a carbon tax - if Rudd was there.

Rudd is an excellent communicator and he strikes chords that Gillard clearly cannot.

He sells ideas. He sells policies.
Gillard is just, well, unable to.

She struggles with the people. She comes across as cold, she comes across as aloof, she comes across as unable to seem that she knows the problems families face.

It's harsh I know, but an unsaid issue is that she has never had a family, never married, never had children.

Aussie families would look at Rudd, a married man with children and know he knows what he is talking about when he speaks of family life.
Plenty of people would hear Gillard say the same thing and know she is reading from a script she has been handed.

To say she is wooden is not quite doing the wood justice.

Why Labor MPs would persist with her is beyond me.
They are literally dancing into their political graves and Australia is heading to an Abbott Australia without him actually needing to do anything.

He is watching a party slit its own throat.
Much like Newman did in QLD.

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Gist

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #28 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:08pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

Not quite. Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south AND he became increasingly dysfunctional. With an election looming he was fast turning into a gibbering wide-eyed idiot who couldn't move in any direction. Couldn't make a decision and wouldn't allow anyone else to make one.

That's why the party dumped him and that's why he had next to no support when it did finally come to a vote this year.

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Maqqa

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Re: 61% of voters want Turnbull.
Reply #29 - Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:10pm

Gist wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south.

Not quite. Rudd was dumped when his polls were heading south AND he became increasingly dysfunctional. With an election looming he was fast turning into a gibbering wide-eyed idiot who couldn't move in any direction. Couldn't make a decision and wouldn't allow anyone else to make one.

That's why the party dumped him and that's why he had next to no support when it did finally come to a vote this year.

He was already dysfunctional - sandwiches, hair drier etc

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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