Australian Politics Forum - Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up

Maqqa

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #15 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 1:06pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 1:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

I'm interested in how its Gillard's stuff up?

Wouldn't the blame lay with the AFP or Foreign Affairs & Immigration?

Surely if the public service was to blame for AWB they must also shoulder the blame for this.

I think the point is that everything bad that happens is Julias fault and everything good is just a disaster waiting to happen..just ask Tony Grin

The left loves to blame Abbott for everything - but when the shoe is on the other foot you cry foul

Maqqa you already do that.
You complain about something then when the Libs do it you use the excuse that Labor did it.
Frankly it's boring.

Then you should easily provide links that disprove me

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #16 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 1:19pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 1:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

I'm interested in how its Gillard's stuff up?

Wouldn't the blame lay with the AFP or Foreign Affairs & Immigration?

Surely if the public service was to blame for AWB they must also shoulder the blame for this.

I think the point is that everything bad that happens is Julias fault and everything good is just a disaster waiting to happen..just ask Tony Grin

The left loves to blame Abbott for everything - but when the shoe is on the other foot you cry foul

Maqqa you already do that.
You complain about something then when the Libs do it you use the excuse that Labor did it.
Frankly it's boring.

Then you should easily provide links that disprove me

Disprove what?

I've got better thing to do than troll back through threads

You can be honest or bullsh!t

People can believe my accusation or not, I don't really care.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up Reply #17 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 4:00pm angeleyes wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:53am: adelcrow wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:50am: Wow..I wonder what the Indonesians think of Abbotts policy of towing refugee boats back to Indonesia Does your mail order bride know about your Abbott fetish Adel? bloody hilarious.
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longweekend58

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #18 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 4:50pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

I'm interested in how its Gillard's stuff up?
Wouldn't the blame lay with the AFP or Foreign Affairs & Immigration?

Surely if the public service was to blame for AWB they must also shoulder the blame for this.

be careful here... much of the blame Howard gets from the lefties is from things peopl in various deparments did - not him personally. Tehre is athing called 'minsterial responsibility. But I'd also agree that it only goes so far. You can hardly blame a minister for the illegal acts of some flunkie of which he had no knowledge nor any reason to do so.

Well technically in the Westminster system the Minster responsible for the portfolio is responsible for ANY stuff up that occurs within that department.
It made sure they were on top things & remained so.
Pity it went out the window somewhere around 97 Roll Eyes

Actually, Howards tough code of minsterial conduct was far tougher than his predecessor. However, the problem came that he was sacking a minister every week for what was trivial problems or oversights or the actions of an underling over which he had no control. Regardless of who is in govt, ministers need to be accountable but not for every single tings that goes wrong otherwise no minister will last longer than amonth. There really needs to be some latitude given or do you think you should get sacked from your job for a speeding fine or a late tax return?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #19 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 5:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

I'm interested in how its Gillard's stuff up?
Wouldn't the blame lay with the AFP or Foreign Affairs & Immigration?

Surely if the public service was to blame for AWB they must also shoulder the blame for this.

be careful here... much of the blame Howard gets from the lefties is from things peopl in various deparments did - not him personally. Tehre is athing called 'minsterial responsibility. But I'd also agree that it only goes so far. You can hardly blame a minister for the illegal acts of some flunkie of which he had no knowledge nor any reason to do so.

Well technically in the Westminster system the Minster responsible for the portfolio is responsible for ANY stuff up that occurs within that department.
It made sure they were on top things & remained so.
Pity it went out the window somewhere around 97 Roll Eyes

Actually, Howards tough code of minsterial conduct was far tougher than his predecessor. However, the problem came that he was sacking a minister every week for what was trivial problems or oversights or the actions of an underling over which he had no control. Regardless of who is in govt, ministers need to be accountable but not for every single tings that goes wrong otherwise no minister will last longer than amonth. There really needs to be some latitude given or do you think you should get sacked from your job for a speeding fine or a late tax return?

No actually I agree with you.........BUT
Howard went from too tough as you pointed out
To far too lax allowing Ministers Carte Blanch
Reith & phone cards
Downer & AWB
Whoever for Kids overboard
& the long list of other indiscretions that should have seen ministers to resign.

Which is in part why we now have gross ineptitude running both parties.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #20 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:00pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 5:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

I'm interested in how its Gillard's stuff up?
Wouldn't the blame lay with the AFP or Foreign Affairs & Immigration?

Surely if the public service was to blame for AWB they must also shoulder the blame for this.

be careful here... much of the blame Howard gets from the lefties is from things peopl in various deparments did - not him personally. Tehre is athing called 'minsterial responsibility. But I'd also agree that it only goes so far. You can hardly blame a minister for the illegal acts of some flunkie of which he had no knowledge nor any reason to do so.

Well technically in the Westminster system the Minster responsible for the portfolio is responsible for ANY stuff up that occurs within that department.
It made sure they were on top things & remained so.
Pity it went out the window somewhere around 97 Roll Eyes

Actually, Howards tough code of minsterial conduct was far tougher than his predecessor. However, the problem came that he was sacking a minister every week for what was trivial problems or oversights or the actions of an underling over which he had no control. Regardless of who is in govt, ministers need to be accountable but not for every single tings that goes wrong otherwise no minister will last longer than amonth. There really needs to be some latitude given or do you think you should get sacked from your job for a speeding fine or a late tax return?

No actually I agree with you.........BUT
Howard went from too tough as you pointed out
To far too lax allowing Ministers Carte Blanch
Reith & phone cards
Downer & AWB
Whoever for Kids overboard
& the long list of other indiscretions that should have seen ministers to resign.

Which is in part why we now have gross ineptitude running both parties.

too lax? perhaps. I cant say I thought about it too much. But the trouble is historically our very best leaders over the centuries have been deeply flawed people. It was in fact their flaws that made them great leaders. if we are to legislate and codify the truly great out of positions of authority alll we have to do is get a code of conduct that is so tough that only the weak and incompetent will be able to abide by.

its a tough one, but I dont think that (in general) our ministers really behave appalingly. And tightening up more may only drive the capable away or strangle those that remain.

Winston Churchil was a horribly complicated and problem-filled person. hed never get a gig in todays parliament.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up Reply #21 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:05pm Take a word of advice Gillard, you are not strong and neither was Howard orAbbott, you are just a corrupt lying criminal who thinks she can strong arm the will of the Australian people. Get out of my country you lying piece of shyte.
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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up Reply #22 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:06pm
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #23 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 9:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

But the trouble is historically our very best leaders over the centuries have been deeply flawed people. It was in fact their flaws that made them great leaders.

Yes and we are to blame, we lap up slacious gossip.
Everything is suddenly "Ïn the public interest"
Does it really matter if the leader gets drunk every second night, screws anything that walks, did drugs when young maybe even the odd joint still at private parties?
As by the example you have given, no it does not.

But moral outrage and sex sell newspapers.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #24 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 10:56pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-06/indonesia-demands-answers-over-smuggling-k...

Indonesia has asked Australia to explain how an alleged people smuggler, known as Captain Emad, was given a refugee protection visa in Australia.

The allegations, aired on the ABC’s Four Corners program, have caused a flurry of diplomatic inquiries between Canberra and Jakarta.

Indonesia's foreign minister Marty Natalegawa says the allegations about Emad's refugee status in Australia are "very serious".

"It is something that is extraordinary and quite at variance to serious efforts that I know [the] Australian Government and Indonesian government is moving to tackle the problem of people smuggling," he said.

"Someone that is involved in people smuggling activities must not be given the opportunity to continue their illegal activities."

His comments follow those of Tantowi Yahya, a high-profile member of Indonesia’s parliamentary committee on foreign affairs, who told AM the case made Australia look inconsistent when it comes to the regional fight against people smuggling.

Emad, also known as Abu Khalid, posed as an asylum seeker to smuggle himself into Australia in 2010.

He was taken into detention on Christmas Island and was given a protection visa and Australian residency on April 20, 2010, only three months after the boat arrived.

Emad and other smugglers passed ASIO security checks and went on to set up lucrative people smuggling deals in Australia.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up Reply #25 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:13pm Well look, the kind of contempt John Howard had for the will of the Australian people he was and is a Terrorist the same as Julia Gillard is - what makes you say Tony Abbott will be any less arrogant than those two disgusting petty dictators?
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #26 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:23pm

Prevailing wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:13pm:

Well look, the kind of contempt John Howard had for the will of the Australian people he was and is a Terrorist the same as Julia Gillard is - what makes you say Tony Abbott will be any less arrogant than those two disgusting petty dictators?

They same goes for every other politician that will ever grace this Earth

We tend to be so politically loyal and bias that we lose sight of what they are there to do? They are there to run this Australia for Australians first and foremost. Then they address other peripheral issues.

It's irrelevant whether we like a person personally or not - it's about whether they can do the job or not based on facts rather than personal bias.

The argument of "Because I hate him" does not cut it. While it's your vote to cast - it's a wasted vote.

You look at the reasons why Howard was voted out - it had nothing to do with his him running this country. He was voted out on peripheral issues that was inflamed by extreme lefties.

The issues he was voted out for are still there today. It has not changed!

But our economy is going down the toilet given the contradictory economic figures.

So while we continue to use emotive words like "I hate him/her" then this country has a long way to go.

While we allow parties like the Greens to raise awareness of their issues by bullying or demonising then we have a long way to go.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Prevailing

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Re: Indonesia furious over Gillard's stuff up
Reply #27 - Jun 6^th, 2012 at 11:32pm

John Howard was a man who had nothing but contempt for the will of the Australian people. He was a dangerous ideological fundamentalist like Gillard convinced he was ideologically correct and he should implement his agenda regardless of how unpopular it was. Howard was a terrorist - he was rejected by the Australian people, he was voted out of his own seat. We will not tolerate being ruled by thugs who think they can strong arm us with their ideology.

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