Australian Politics Forum - "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM

longweekend58

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #90 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:09pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think.

nice deflection but you know what I mean. i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election. Perhaps at the one after.

So I repeat my question. I know it is a question of principle which is why so many people refuse to answer it.

Can YOU answer it, FD?

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freediver

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #91 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:18pm

Quote:

i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election.

Aye. The people have spoken.

If they really do win a mandate and labor blocks it, they will simply get an even bigger mandate next time round. It has happened before. The more 'undeniable' the 'in fact deniable' mandate is, the worse labor would make it for themselves if they block it.

There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.

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Dnarever

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #92 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think.

nice deflection but you know what I mean. i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election. Perhaps at the one after.

So I repeat my question. I know it is a question of principle which is why so many people refuse to answer it.

Can YOU answer it, FD?

You don't seem to answer about the difference with Abbnott opposing the ETS that he had voted for which had a huge mandate at the time.

You only seem to want to respect the mandates which you support.

I do not think that the major problem is what Labor either support or not. I doubt that they can technically manage a repeal of the fixed price deal.

They can not afford to do it and they can not put an alternative in place. There is many billions of Dollars of black hole in their commitment to repeal the legislation.

I would think that Abbnott would be in deep poo if Labor do support his mandate - the last thing he would want to happen - remember that his belief is that a carbon tax is the best method.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM Reply #93 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:20pm freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:21pm: If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think. You shoudl be a politican. That was one of the better non-answers yet. ANd like all such answers it yeilds no useful information while revealing nothing of the ethics or morals of the speaker.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49280 At my desk.	Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM Reply #94 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:21pm Does this answer your question Longy? Quote: There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.
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longweekend58

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #95 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:29pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:21pm:

Does this answer your question Longy?

Quote:

There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

So presumably, the Coalition voted to repeal WorkChoices for no reason. You know that they needed the Coalitions senate votes, right?

So try again and see if you can answer the actual question directly. A Question Time answer is not an actual answer.

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freediver

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #96 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

Quote:

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is?

I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

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John Smith

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #97 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:52pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Quote:

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is?

I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

longy refuses to accept any answer that doesn't say what he wants it to say ...

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John Smith

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #98 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:55pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:11am:

Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs

63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax
57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it

So suck it up princess!!!

When will he repeal it.

How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it.

How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded?

And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures?

How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer?

Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time

which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal.

Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it

No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight].

Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented.

Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious.

He will not take an option from which he can only lose.

I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow

hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think.

of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

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Maqqa

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #99 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

That's what I thought

The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices:

(1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive

(2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution

These are the likely scenarios.

Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #100 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:00pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

That's what I thought

The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices:

(1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive

(2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution

These are the likely scenarios.

Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it ....

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Maqqa

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #101 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:03pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

That's what I thought

The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices:

(1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive

(2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution

These are the likely scenarios.

Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it ....

But he just got an overwhelming mandate to repeal the carbon tax.

If there was any "right" time to call another election it would be after this mandate.

What is the risk if he gets to blame it on the Greens and ALP.

The risk is all on the Greens and ALP of losing even more seats

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #102 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:06pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

That's what I thought

The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices:

(1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive

(2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution

These are the likely scenarios.

Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it ....

But he just got an overwhelming mandate to repeal the carbon tax.

If there was any "right" time to call another election it would be after this mandate.

What is the risk if he gets to blame it on the Greens and ALP.

The risk is all on the Greens and ALP of losing even more seats

Calling another election after just gaining power (assuming he was to win of course) would still be a unnecessary risk ... not something he would take

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #103 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:25pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Quote:

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is?

I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

Exactly. This notion that one side or the other needs to honour some mythical "mandate" is complete BS put by lazy idiots. The members need to honour the position they put at the election. That's why they got elected. If that means voting differently to some majority of other members then so be it. THAT is what they are there to do.

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freediver

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Re: "Carbon Levy Will Never Be Repealed" PM
Reply #104 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:38pm

Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him.

Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that.

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