Soren wrote on Jun 10
th, 2012 at 1:44pm:
2. If someone says stupid things because he/she is stupid (ie says says stupid things as a matter of personal policy and outlook), and you say to him: 'you speak like that because you are stupid" - is that abuse?
It's because sometimes (and very often, I think), it is "stupid" to call someone or their ideas "stupid." It is "stupid" because very often when I get into arguments with people, I don't understand their views. I know I don't understand their views, which is why I keep arguing with them. If I knew why they had their views, I wouldn't be arguing with them, because I would know how I might develop those same views. Once I understand them, it then becomes pointless arguing with them. Because I am unable to reach those same views, I have no right to call someone stupid.
If you can't reason yourself into their situation/worldview, then you wouldn't be able to reason yourself out of their situation/worldview. Because you aren't in their situation and haven't proven that you can get out of it and therefore prove wrong their worldview, you don't have authority over that person. You'd be a hypocrite to call that person stupid. You have no experience of what it means to be that person. The fact that you can't reason yourself into their worldview/situation means that you are just as stupid as that person.
The best you can do is keep arguing with that person. Calling them "stupid" doesn't change anything. It still doesn't eliminate whatever misunderstanding or disagreement you have. At best, calling a person or their ideas "stupid" is cheap and not constructive.
Soren wrote on Jun 10
th, 2012 at 1:44pm:
I mean, are there no idiots any more? Is every point of view, no matter how demonstratively unreasoned, how evidently inconsistent, how obviously blind needs to be respected and treated as 'valid'?
It depends on how much influence this person has. The more powerful they are in your society, the more you have to fight them. There just isn't any guarantee that calling them "stupid" will work or that it's the best way to achieve your goals.
Soren wrote on Jun 10
th, 2012 at 4:50pm:
You misunderstand me. It is because women bitch and snipe and gossip and verbalise everything to within an inch of its interest-value. A bloke will typically explain where he's coming from and tell another bloke to fook off if the other is a recalcitrantly incomprehending. A woman will hiss and nag and start a gossip campaign.
Women put an emphasis on something different to what men do. For the sake of argument I will say that women are more relational -- they put emphasis on the process of living and surviving, and therefore concern themselves with people, how they interact and get through life. Men are more technical/practical -- they put emphasis on things that aren't essential to survival, things that they enjoy doing or develop their pride. You may not care about the things that are important to women, but I'm pretty sure they think you're a "jerk" for this reason.
muso wrote on Jun 10
th, 2012 at 9:29pm:
No. As far as I'm concerned, that is perfectly acceptable according to the forum rules. You can call ideas stupid and explain why. Everybody has their stupid moments, but sometimes people whom we regard as stupid can occasionally understand something that others can't. I'll call it the Forrest Gump effect.
Not always a good idea. Ideas can be associated with people and if they put a lot of effort or time into their ideas -- even 5 mins -- they'd be offended for being told they wasted their time. You could provoke a hostile reaction.
Soren wrote on Jun 12
th, 2012 at 10:32pm:
I do get upset by the harm caused by stupidity. letting that harm pass unremarked would be even worse than stupid.
If these people have influence, then I can understand why you want to fight them. But up to a certain point, none of this matters anyway because everybody dies. Death is inevitable. What you fight for is only as good as whatever legacy you leave behind. How aggressive you want to be really depends on how much it will benefit yourself and/or this world/society. If you see it in black and white terms and absolutely have to win every time, you've probably got OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).
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