Australian Politics Forum - Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?

john_g Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1549 Gender:	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #15 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:44am skippy. wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 8:23am: Labor should not repeal the carbon tax. It is the right thing to do,screw the imbeciles that want it repealed, most are incapable of understanding logic. So, basically, screw the majority and democracy, and keep the carbon tax, because YOU want it, skip?
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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #16 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:34am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

So because that bunch of buffoons you love so much thought it was right to give the finger to the people who voted for them by voting against what they'd promised at the election once they won their seats YOU think that that somehow places a burden on everyone else to do similar? Do you have any idea how stupid that argument is?

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #17 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:39am

john_g wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 8:23am:

Labor should not repeal the carbon tax. It is the right thing to do,screw the imbeciles that want it repealed, most are incapable of understanding logic.

So, basically, screw the majority and democracy, and keep the carbon tax, because YOU want it, skip?

No, that is our democracy. Voting the way you said you would vote at the election. Actually representing the people who voted FOR you by doing what you PROMISED them you would do.

Not changing your actions AFTER you get elected because some moron claims they have some "mandate" they can't quite define that you have to abide by for reasons they can't quite explain.

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #18 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:50am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:32am:

TheGreenLight wrote on Jun 14^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 14^th, 2012 at 8:41pm:

I think you need to re-read your OP there... you probably meant Labor, not coalition.

If you did then I certainly agree with you. All this drivel about "mandate" is for lazy retards who don't want to work to get legislation through.

It wasn't a typo, but it probably wasn't the best use of grammar. You're right, it does look I meant the Coalition in "they". I will change, thanks for pointing it out. And you're also right, Labor would have a mandate FOR the carbon tax, the conservatives are too daft to understand.

so if labor win the next election they would have a mandate for the carbon tax (meaning libs shoudl support it) but it the libs win they wont have a mandate to repeal it and labor shouldnt feel compelled to support the repeal??

do I really have to explain just how breathtakingly hypocritical that is?

Each side should just vote their policy, it's all pretty simple really. If the Libs win the they will vote to repeal the price on carbon and Labor will vote against repealing it.

Just as Labor voted to implement a price on carbon and the Libs voted against it this time - it's sort of how the whole thing works.

There is no such thing as a "mandate", the only mandate you get is the votes you have in parliament and if the Libs don't get enough votes to either pass it on their own, or get enough Indies to come with them then it doesn't get repealed

Simple

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skippy.

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #19 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:55am

john_g wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

skippy. wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 8:23am:

Labor should not repeal the carbon tax. It is the right thing to do,screw the imbeciles that want it repealed, most are incapable of understanding logic.

So, basically, screw the majority and democracy, and keep the carbon tax, because YOU want it, skip?

The majority didn't want a GST either, but I dont here anyone complaining now. I doubt that figure quoted is correct either. But as far as I'm concerned,our kids futures are more important. when the tax is introduced most people will realise this whole thing is a beat up built on bullsh it by Abbott and his conga line of suckholes, They care nothing about the future of our children, and everything about short term gain of government. The whole "oh she lied" bullsh is just whiny little bitches that didn't get the gov they wanted.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #20 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:59am

skippy. wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 8:23am:

Labor should not repeal the carbon tax. It is the right thing to do,screw the imbeciles that want it repealed, most are incapable of understanding logic.

Absolutely correct. The right thing to do is sometimes unpopular. Tough. Its still the right thing to do.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #21 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #22 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:29am

Gist wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

So because that bunch of buffoons you love so much thought it was right to give the finger to the people who voted for them by voting against what they'd promised at the election once they won their seats YOU think that that somehow places a burden on everyone else to do similar? Do you have any idea how stupid that argument is?

well thats the principle of the mandate. In other words. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU! Its about he entire country that you serve. Having the ability to kybosh the clear will of the people does not mean you should. Workchoices would still be in existence if not for the Libs understand this concept.

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #23 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am Mandates are a crock of sh1t anyway. No one votes for a party for a single reason only. Any government which claims a "mandate", is usually just trying to deflect attention.
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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #24 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #25 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

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Maqqa

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #26 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:49am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

Your second line says ""vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened""

The election result was 53/47 - yet current polling shows 57/43 for the LIBs so which side have a greater mandate?

So if they listened then in your eyes it's about "to save face & appear to have listened"

But if Labor does it then without question it's as honest as Gillard was when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"???

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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #27 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:04pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

well perhaps they DID learn and they learned to obey the will of the people. So tell me again why the ALP shouldnt do likewise? I still dont understand why you dont think the ALP shoudl vote for the repal in the face of massive mandate? Do you really want to exterminate the concept of the mandate? the ALP will suffer just as badly in the future.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #28 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:04pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

well perhaps they DID learn and they learned to obey the will of the people. So tell me again why the ALP shouldnt do likewise? I still dont understand why you dont think the ALP shoudl vote for the repal in the face of massive mandate? Do you really want to exterminate the concept of the mandate? the ALP will suffer just as badly in the future.

So you could say they abandoned their principals in favour of popularity Wink

I don't want to exterminate the "Mandate" & I never said the ALP should not vote with the coalition to repeal the CT............ONCE, the coalition has revealed their alternative & how it will be funded.
Just rolling over without details just invites a worse policy for us all.
See whats on offer
suggest amendments
horsetrade if necessary
then vote with Libs

You know how politics was done up until 2 years ago when Abbott became leader & any agreement no matter on what suddenly became weakness.

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #29 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Gist wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

So because that bunch of buffoons you love so much thought it was right to give the finger to the people who voted for them by voting against what they'd promised at the election once they won their seats YOU think that that somehow places a burden on everyone else to do similar? Do you have any idea how stupid that argument is?

well thats the principle of the mandate. In other words. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU! Its about he entire country that you serve. Having the ability to kybosh the clear will of the people does not mean you should. Workchoices would still be in existence if not for the Libs understand this concept.

If the will of the people were that clear then there would be no opportunity to kybosh anything. The only reason Lieberals voted against Workchoices is because they realised they'd been firmly kicked in the buttcheeks because of it and they thought they'd best make a show of changing their ways.

And they're now working at ways to quietly get it back under the covers WITHOUT taking it to an election.

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