Australian Politics Forum - Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?

Gist

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #30 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:42pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

Your second line says ""vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened""

The election result was 53/47 - yet current polling shows 57/43 for the LIBs so which side have a greater mandate?

So if they listened then in your eyes it's about "to save face & appear to have listened"

But if Labor does it then without question it's as honest as Gillard was when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"???

What? When was the election held all of a sudden? Did I miss it?

LIEBERALS HAVE NO MANDATE YOU FOOL - THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION!

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #31 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:44pm Quote: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Better than going to gaol for being an accessory to fraud and misleading the Parliament.
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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #32 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:14pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:04pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

well perhaps they DID learn and they learned to obey the will of the people. So tell me again why the ALP shouldnt do likewise? I still dont understand why you dont think the ALP shoudl vote for the repal in the face of massive mandate? Do you really want to exterminate the concept of the mandate? the ALP will suffer just as badly in the future.

So you could say they abandoned their principals in favour of popularity Wink

I don't want to exterminate the "Mandate" & I never said the ALP should not vote with the coalition to repeal the CT............ONCE, the coalition has revealed their alternative & how it will be funded.
Just rolling over without details just invites a worse policy for us all.
See whats on offer
suggest amendments
horsetrade if necessary
then vote with Libs

You know how politics was done up until 2 years ago when Abbott became leader & any agreement no matter on what suddenly became weakness.

The repeal of the CT doesnt have to be replaced with anything. the issue is the CT not any alternative. Labor is duty bound to support that in the even of a massive Abbott win.

and just for the record. the coalition has supported 87+% of the bills put to the parliament. that is hardly saying 'no' to everything. It is in fact not that different from the experience of john howard over 9 years of labor opposition who voted against everything (well actually only around 14% - just like Abbott). trhe difference now, is that the govt is so incompetent that the oppositions gets more coverage of its activities than the govt. The opposition used to struggle to get noticed but Gillard keeps pointing at Abbott and raising his profile.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #33 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:15pm

Gist wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

I love how a mandate is 'lazy' for the carbon tax but on workchoices it wa the right thing for the coalition to vote for its repeal.

honestly guys, do you understand what it is to apply a principle equitably?

Were the coalitions votes required to repeal workchoices??
Or did they just vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened?

yes it was. they could have waited for the new senate but the Libs chose to vote for the repeal in respect of a clear mandate. Its not that hard to understand. A mandate existsed for removing workchoices and a mandate will exists for removing the CT. Integrity and principle demands that mandates be honoured or else we diminish parliamentary democracy even more and replace what we SHOULD DO with what we CAN DO.

So my 2nd line is correct

Your second line says ""vote against their own policy to save face & appear to have listened""

The election result was 53/47 - yet current polling shows 57/43 for the LIBs so which side have a greater mandate?

So if they listened then in your eyes it's about "to save face & appear to have listened"

But if Labor does it then without question it's as honest as Gillard was when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"???

What? When was the election held all of a sudden? Did I miss it?

LIEBERALS HAVE NO MANDATE YOU FOOL - THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION!

you really do have a rather massive problem with comprehension, dont you? this ENTIRE THREAD is talking about what happens AFTER the next election.

try and keep up!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #34 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

The repeal of the CT doesnt have to be replaced with anything.

Yes it does, the coalition has committed to the same 5% reduction of 1990 levels of CO2 and gone to the last 2 elections with that on the books as policy.
Now if they have abandoned action on CC then they should come clean & say so, otherwise they need to tell us how they will achieve the goal.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

Labor is duty bound to support that in the even of a massive Abbott win.

Just as you argue that the Coalition had no duty to support an ETS regardless of the "Mandate"
Labor is not bound to do anything for the coalition, & when they run the same tactics as Abbott has don't you dare complain.

I will but I haven't supported the tactics, but you have.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Gist

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #35 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:15pm:

you really do have a rather massive problem with comprehension, dont you? this ENTIRE THREAD is talking about what happens AFTER the next election.

try and keep up!

But that's easy...

After the next election the Lieberals lose, longfool spends a further three years crying how he wuz robbed and trying to convince anyone and everyone that he knew it wuz gunna happen all along. And he'll incessantly regale us with dick tugging fantasies such as that the Lieberals will definitely win the 2016 election by some huge margin and Labor will be obliged to abide by some mythical mandate that he dreamed up while wanking.

No need to wonder any more longtugger.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #36 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:01pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

The repeal of the CT doesnt have to be replaced with anything.

Yes it does, the coalition has committed to the same 5% reduction of 1990 levels of CO2 and gone to the last 2 elections with that on the books as policy.
Now if they have abandoned action on CC then they should come clean & say so, otherwise they need to tell us how they will achieve the goal.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

Labor is duty bound to support that in the even of a massive Abbott win.

Just as you argue that the Coalition had no duty to support an ETS regardless of the "Mandate"
Labor is not bound to do anything for the coalition, & when they run the same tactics as Abbott has don't you dare complain.

I will but I haven't supported the tactics, but you have.

what mandate for the ETS??? you cant claim a mandate for a policy that wasnt central to an election platform. 2007 was the Workchoecis election and a mandate was given and accepted. You cant therefore consider that EVERY policy has an unequivocal mandate or you might as well end up banning oppositions from voteing against the govt.

Thats the problem with a mandate - it is hard to define. but the CT repeal mandate wont be and THATS what's up for discussion.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #37 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:01pm:

what mandate for the ETS??? you cant claim a mandate for a policy that wasnt central to an election platform.

The ratification of Kyoto and the ETS were as prominent as workchoices.
To say it's just a policy that was mentioned once or twice is denying reality.
If Rudd wasn't talking IR he was talking CC and ratifying Kyoto.

It's like saying Tony wouldn't have a mandate to repeal the mining tax.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #38 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:17pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:01pm:

what mandate for the ETS??? you cant claim a mandate for a policy that wasnt central to an election platform.

The ratification of Kyoto and the ETS were as prominent as workchoices.
To say it's just a policy that was mentioned once or twice is denying reality.
If Rudd wasn't talking IR he was talking CC and ratifying Kyoto.

It's like saying Tony wouldn't have a mandate to repeal the mining tax.

why dont you clear it all up for me and define what you think amandate is (or not). With Rudd winning the second SMALLEST gove-changing majority it is arguable that he didnt have a mandate at all. So, why dont you have a go at defining a mandate and let's work on this. FD's definition of a mandate is a majority in both houses which is about as pointless a definition as you will get while others will claim that Gillard has a mandate - which surely has to be obviously not true.

I look forward to seeing your definition of mandate so we can discuss it. Now if we could only keep the losers out of this....

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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angeleyes Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 615	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #39 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:21pm Now if we could only keep the losers out of this.... Hey Gist, Longy wants you to stay out of this.
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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #40 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:23pm Tony attempted a mandate but was comprehensively rejected. So all your "definitions" are for nothing. It's settled. He doesn't have a mandate. Never will.
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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #41 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:24pm angeleyes wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:21pm: Now if we could only keep the losers out of this.... Hey Gist, Longy wants you to stay out of this. Nah, he was talking about you, dopey. Longloser is having a sook.
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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax? Reply #42 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm A mandate???? Perhaps for the budgie smuggler brigade it is----------
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longweekend58

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #43 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:30pm

mozzaok wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

A mandate????
Perhaps for the budgie smuggler brigade it is----------

now what would be really fascinating would be to see you in your unbelievably partisan style attempt a definition of a mandate. i DOUBT YOU COULD with essentially saying 'labor good, liberal bad, oogah!!'

Feel free to prove me wrong.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Gist

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Re: Why should Labor vote to repeal the carbon tax?
Reply #44 - Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:41pm

mozzaok wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

A mandate????
Perhaps for the budgie smuggler brigade it is----------

Dammit, mozza, you spoiled it! He'll never bite now... Roll Eyes

If he'd bitten at my post, I'd have said Tony tried a man date with the independents but they all rejected the offer of his arse.

He'll never get one now. Not publicly anyway. Grin

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