Australian Politics Forum - "I know that there is no god,...."

muso

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #45 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:41am

Yadda wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:28am:

muso,

You do not believe in a spirit being, known as 'God'.

And so, why would you believe in another spirit being, known as SATAN?

SATAN is real, and his 'angels' are real.

My 'understanding' of this issue is that the world [this world] is given to SATAN as a form 'recruiting' ground, until judgement day. [i don't really know why]

My 'understanding' also, is that God has the power to protect men [and women] from the power of SATAN's spiritual influence.

That spiritual protection can be gained [by us] very, very, easily, .....and likewise, that spiritual protection can also be lost very easily !!

Deep down within us, we all know, and have a true sense, of where our present path is leading us to. Wink

Don't we ???

On your last point, I'm not sure that all of us do, and the path itself is sometimes more important than the final destination. I had a slight chuckle at your candle analogy. Who's been teaching you Buddhism?

Referring to your question(highlighted), of course I don't, but I am interested in the struggle that man has had, and continues to have to understand the universe and the nature of existence. I'm also interested in how you rationalise your beliefs.

The point about Satan/ the Natural World was in the frame of understanding the development of Christianity, which has its roots in Polytheism, which developed into monolatry (recognition of other gods but worship of just one), which in turn developed into the Christianity we know today.

Religious thought interests me, and religions like Christianity and even Islam have evolved. The Christianity of the Nicea of 325 AD is totally diferent from the Christianity of today, and some of forms of Christianity that existed up to 325 were barely recognisable as Christianity.

I don't judge, and I don't mock, and I find simplistic atheistic cliches to be somewhat irritating. You're the one who brought up Bertrand Russell's teapot, not me. Grin

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« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:50am by muso »

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Soren

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #46 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:54am

Yadda wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 12:44am:

Regards what Soren said.....

'God is experienced subjectively.'

Of course he is.

'...because we humans cannot see and perceive a divine being [a being who transcends our human comprehension]...'

But Soren, [if God does in fact exist!] that does not exclude the possibility, that God can be experienced 'objectively'.

Not sure what you mean. To my mind an experience is by definition subjective.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #47 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 6:23pm The Deist experience is necessarily objective, in that the position is arrived at through rational thought, and the non-interventionist nature of the Deist God precludes any subjective element. Having said that, many Deists have Christian "baggage".
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Soren

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #48 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 6:37pm

This sounds to me like a 'god's point of view' kind of objectivity. Treating 'rational thought' as objective is possible, I think, only if rational thought is treated (unseflconciously) as being sub specie aeternitatis, that is, above any particular metaphysics.

For Darwinians of the worst kind, however, thought is merely a biological function of matter - ie bound to a particular species and not at all objective.

Objectifying human thought works only is it is treated as above the species, eternal, the reason of the universe itself - the divine element.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #49 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 6:49pm Darwin was a Christian, but you mean Atheists, I take it? "Darwinian" is an unfortunate term usually used by the Intelligent Design brigade.
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Yadda

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #50 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:11pm

muso wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 8:41am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:28am:

muso,

You do not believe in a spirit being, known as 'God'.

And so, why would you believe in another spirit being, known as SATAN?

SATAN is real, and his 'angels' are real.

My 'understanding' of this issue is that the world [this world] is given to SATAN as a form 'recruiting' ground, until judgement day. [i don't really know why]

My 'understanding' also, is that God has the power to protect men [and women] from the power of SATAN's spiritual influence.

That spiritual protection can be gained [by us] very, very, easily, .....and likewise, that spiritual protection can also be lost very easily !!

Deep down within us, we all know, and have a true sense, of where our present path is leading us to. Wink

Don't we ???

Quote:

On your last point, I'm not sure that all of us do, and the path itself is sometimes more important than the final destination.

Yes, the path we take would be important.
But we need to choose a path that will eventually deliver us to our desired destination.
Otherwise we are just as likely to end up 'lost in the world', going nowhere !
Which sorta defeats our chances of coming to God's proposed destination for us.
Of course, many of us seem to be very happy to stop 'where we are', and to just 'go native' !
But that would be our choice.
Right ? Wink

Quote:

I had a slight chuckle at your candle analogy. Who's been teaching you Buddhism?

I like the peace [of mind], and some of the logical thought stuff in Buddhism.
But to me, Buddhism seems like a train, sitting at a station, but the train doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Which is another dead end path, imo.

Who has been teaching me Buddhism?
Buddhism, is that what i have been learning !? Grin

Quote:

Referring to your question(highlighted), of course I don't, but I am interested in the struggle that man has had, and continues to have to understand the universe and the nature of existence. I'm also interested in how you rationalise your beliefs.

I am too.

Hence the meditative bent.

Quote:

The point about Satan/ the Natural World was in the frame of understanding the development of Christianity, which has its roots in Polytheism, which developed into monolatry (recognition of other gods but worship of just one), which in turn developed into the Christianity we know today.

Yes i got that.
You are rationalising our Christian belief in religion.

Quote:

Religious thought interests me, and religions like Christianity and even Islam have evolved. The Christianity of the Nicea of 325 AD is totally diferent from the Christianity of today, and some of forms of Christianity that existed up to 325 were barely recognisable as Christianity.

The first Christians were mostly Jews.

'Christianity and Islam have evolved'

I don't particularly like what 'official', organised Christianity, in all of its forms, has morphed into, today.

ISLAM is a spiritual vehicle, and imo, modern, organised Christianity has effectively hooked up its wagon to ISLAM.
IMO, modern, organised Christianity, and ISLAM, will have the same destination.
All aboard!!!

Jesus words;
".....for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

People who wish to get aboard another, and a different, spiritual vehicle, should study and read their bible!

The bible is God's word.

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Quote:

I don't judge, and I don't mock, and I find simplistic atheistic cliches to be somewhat irritating. You're the one who brought up Bertrand Russell's teapot, not me. Grin

Bertrand Russell's teapot was a point of logic, to 'beat' [assault] you with, muso. Grin

Hey, that teapot could be up there!!! Grin

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #51 - Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:46pm

Soren wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 12:44am:

Regards what Soren said.....

'God is experienced subjectively.'

Of course he is.

'...because we humans cannot see and perceive a divine being [a being who transcends our human comprehension]...'

But Soren, [if God does in fact exist!] that does not exclude the possibility, that God can be experienced 'objectively'.

Not sure what you mean. To my mind an experience is by definition subjective.

Yes.

Our [psyche's] interpretation of any experience always is.

Coz, what is real ?

And what part of our 'experience' is not real ?

What part of the information which our eyes and brain process is 'changed' to conform with our 'learned' worldview ?

IMO, everything which we experience, in every waking moment, is merely presented to our consciousness as an 'interpretation'.

So what is real ?

The pain, the joy, the terror, the anguish, the sensual pleasure ?

Our desires ?

Do our creature desires reflect a form of reality ?

All i know, is that what we [humans] accept as reality, seems [to me] to be a contrived illusion.

I prefer to refer to this 'reality' as, a construct.

Because that is what i believe that it is.

[p.s. I am not on any medication, and i do not use 'recreational' drugs.]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #52 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 10:05am muso wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 6:49pm: Darwin was a Christian, but you mean Atheists, I take it? "Darwinian" is an unfortunate term usually used by the Intelligent Design brigade. What I meant was a mechanical theory of how life has come about and how it exists.
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muso

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #53 - Jul 9^th, 2012 at 6:36pm

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

muso wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 6:49pm:

Darwin was a Christian, but you mean Atheists, I take it? "Darwinian" is an unfortunate term usually used by the Intelligent Design brigade.

What I meant was a mechanical theory of how life has come about and how it exists.

Evolution is obvious. Abiogenesis is not, or at least we're a long way from understanding how the first single celled organisms came about.

Regardless of how it all originated, we have to deal with the condition of life (consciousness/ conscienta) as it is now. Some people claim that thoughts and emotions are merely chemical reactions. Of course at the very basic level, they are chemical reactions, but it's a bit like saying that a digital recording of Aprile Millo singing Leonora's aria from Fidelio is just a sequence of 1's and 0's. Well it is, but it's missing the point somewhere.

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namnugenot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 639 NSW Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #54 - Aug 1^st, 2012 at 9:53am Your all not real.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21884 A cat with a view	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #55 - Aug 2^nd, 2012 at 10:07pm namnugenot wrote on Aug 1^st, 2012 at 9:53am: Your all not real. We [muso and i. well, i !! ] get that a lot. And it is true, namnugenot. coz, only you, namnugenot, know what is correct, and only you, namnugenot, have a firm grasp on reality. namnugenot, You are not related, by blood, to SPOT are you ???
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #56 - Aug 3^rd, 2012 at 5:16am

Yadda wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2012 at 10:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Aug 1^st, 2012 at 9:53am:

Your all not real.

We [muso and i. well, i !! ] get that a lot.

And it is true, namnugenot.

coz, only you, namnugenot, know what is correct, and only you, namnugenot, have a firm grasp on reality.

namnugenot,

You are not related, by blood, to SPOT are you ???

It is obvious that you do not understand humour @ all in any form unless it is you that is trying to quip.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #57 - Aug 3^rd, 2012 at 5:38pm namnugenot wrote on Aug 1^st, 2012 at 9:53am: Your all not real. I agree. I'm just a figment of my imagination. Cognito, ergo imaginarius sum.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: "I know that there is no god,...." Reply #58 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 6:16pm There's one "god" (if you like) from whom we're never free, nor in whom we're free to disbelieve... The "god" of doubt.
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Soren

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Re: "I know that there is no god,...."
Reply #59 - Oct 6^th, 2012 at 6:16pm

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

Regardless of how it all originated, we have to deal with the condition of life (consciousness/ conscienta) as it is now.

Thanks for that. We have now safely arrived at the 'tortoise's legs go all the way down' stage. Didn't take long (mercifully).

How it all originated is a pretty crucial issue, considering the topic, don't you think?

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