Australian Politics Forum - Right wing refo rubbish

progressiveslol

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Re: Why the so-called Malaysian Solution will not work
Reply #210 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:04am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 9:11pm:

Column 2 is boat numbers. Boat arrivals. Read it an weap.

Weap? What is that supposed to mean?

And was the Pacific Solution in force in 2011? I don't think so! If you're going to talk about the Pacific Solution then by all means talk about it but don't include periods when it wasn't around and pretend that it was.

Oh, and my chart was made simple so simple people could read it... Grin

Nice try gist, but you either screwed up big time or got busted big time.

Pacific solution had 1 to 7 boats a year. lol look at every other year. Do you get it yet.

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Right wing refo rubbish Reply #211 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:28am Bummer dude! Oh well, sh!t happens. Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying argument - numbers were increasing BEFORE the Pacific Solution was dismantled. Your vaunted deterrent wasn't. Which is why Nauru won't work again.
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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #212 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:33am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

Bummer dude!

Oh well, sh!t happens. Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying argument - numbers were increasing BEFORE the Pacific Solution was dismantled. Your vaunted deterrent wasn't. Which is why Nauru won't work again.

by a boat or 2. That is not an increase. The next year is an increase going from the lows of less than ten (almost 5's) to 60. That is an increase. To go from 3 to 7 is not an increase when you talk in terms of an increase to 60.

A growth of 1 boat per year is not a growth of concern. A growth of 50 per year for 2 years after the pacific solution is a concern.

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Gist

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #213 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:01am

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

Bummer dude!

Oh well, sh!t happens. Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying argument - numbers were increasing BEFORE the Pacific Solution was dismantled. Your vaunted deterrent wasn't. Which is why Nauru won't work again.

by a boat or 2. That is not an increase. The next year is an increase going from the lows of less than ten (almost 5's) to 60. That is an increase. To go from 3 to 7 is not an increase when you talk in terms of an increase to 60.

A growth of 1 boat per year is not a growth of concern. A growth of 50 per year for 2 years after the pacific solution is a concern.

So are you interested in people or boats? Seems to me that one boat the size of a cruise liner loaded with asylum seekers is a success according to you because it is only ONE boat! You claim to be concerned with drownings at sea. Do you want to save lives or boats? If there's an empty boat out there, should we go rescue it?

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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #214 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:33am:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

Bummer dude!

Oh well, sh!t happens. Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying argument - numbers were increasing BEFORE the Pacific Solution was dismantled. Your vaunted deterrent wasn't. Which is why Nauru won't work again.

by a boat or 2. That is not an increase. The next year is an increase going from the lows of less than ten (almost 5's) to 60. That is an increase. To go from 3 to 7 is not an increase when you talk in terms of an increase to 60.

A growth of 1 boat per year is not a growth of concern. A growth of 50 per year for 2 years after the pacific solution is a concern.

So are you interested in people or boats? Seems to me that one boat the size of a cruise liner loaded with asylum seekers is a success according to you because it is only ONE boat! You claim to be concerned with drownings at sea. Do you want to save lives or boats? If there's an empty boat out there, should we go rescue it?

Dont know what the hell you are on about with trying sqirm out of your fakery

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Right wing refo rubbish Reply #215 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:08am progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am: Dont know what the hell you are on about with trying sqirm out of your fakery Fakery? It's a simple question! People or boats? Your chart (and mine as it turns out) both show people. And yet you blab on about boats. Which is it?
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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #216 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:10am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

Dont know what the hell you are on about with trying sqirm out of your fakery

Fakery? It's a simple question! People or boats? Your chart (and mine as it turns out) both show people. And yet you blab on about boats. Which is it?

You tried to make out like the numbers of people were representative of the number of boats you tool.

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Gist

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #217 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:36am

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

Dont know what the hell you are on about with trying sqirm out of your fakery

Fakery? It's a simple question! People or boats? Your chart (and mine as it turns out) both show people. And yet you blab on about boats. Which is it?

You tried to make out like the numbers of people were representative of the number of boats you tool.

Yes and I've admitted as much. It was an honest mistake based on misreading a chart that I'd hastily thrown together ages ago. In response to a question from YOU as I recall! Where you were banging on about boats just like you are now!!

So... which is it? People or boats? Because if its boats, I'll laugh at you of course. If it's people then my arguments stand and both our charts show it - the increase started in 2005/2006, before the PS was demolished. Yes, the increase itself may well have increased after the PS was abolished but nevertheless, there was a trend there prior.

Yours maybe doesn't show it so much because you're obsessed with the peaks but.. anyway...

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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #218 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:54am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:36am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

Dont know what the hell you are on about with trying sqirm out of your fakery

Fakery? It's a simple question! People or boats? Your chart (and mine as it turns out) both show people. And yet you blab on about boats. Which is it?

You tried to make out like the numbers of people were representative of the number of boats you tool.

Yes and I've admitted as much. It was an honest mistake based on misreading a chart that I'd hastily thrown together ages ago. In response to a question from YOU as I recall! Where you were banging on about boats just like you are now!!

So... which is it? People or boats? Because if its boats, I'll laugh at you of course. If it's people then my arguments stand and both our charts show it - the increase started in 2005/2006, before the PS was demolished. Yes, the increase itself may well have increased after the PS was abolished but nevertheless, there was a trend there prior.

Yours maybe doesn't show it so much because you're obsessed with the peaks but.. anyway...

It is boats of course because the less boats, the less deaths of PEOPLE.

It is the boats that sink remember, not the people sinking first.

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Right wing refo rubbish Reply #219 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58am progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:54am: It is boats of course because the less boats, the less deaths of PEOPLE. It is the boats that sink remember, not the people sinking first. WRONG!
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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #220 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58am

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

It is boats of course because the less boats, the less deaths of PEOPLE.

It is the boats that sink remember, not the people sinking first.

WRONG!

lol because you say so

So a person sinks before the boat does. come on you are laughable

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Gist

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #221 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm

Also, according to you in 2003 the Pacific Solution was an abysmal failure. Look at the numbers! 2002 had ONE boat. In 2003 there were 53 boats.

53 TIMES AS MANY AS IN 2002!

What a failed policy that is! By YOUR definition!

In 2010 there were 134 boats. In 2011 that had been HALVED to just 69 boats! A success of the Rudd onshore processing policy!! By YOUR definition!

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #222 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

Also, according to you in 2003 the Pacific Solution was an abysmal failure. Look at the numbers! 2002 had ONE boat. In 2003 there were 53 boats.

53 TIMES AS MANY AS IN 2002!

What a failed policy that is! By YOUR definition!

In 2010 there were 134 boats. In 2011 that had been HALVED to just 69 boats! A success of the Rudd onshore processing policy!! By YOUR definition!

You get paid to say that, thats why it does not really count, I on the other hand give the Communist Government zero productivity to steal from me.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #223 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:07pm

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

Also, according to you in 2003 the Pacific Solution was an abysmal failure. Look at the numbers! 2002 had ONE boat. In 2003 there were 53 boats.

53 TIMES AS MANY AS IN 2002!

What a failed policy that is! By YOUR definition!

In 2010 there were 134 boats. In 2011 that had been HALVED to just 69 boats! A success of the Rudd onshore processing policy!! By YOUR definition!

Gist, stick with column 2

Please learn to read graphs and raw data.

Column 2

You are fooling yourself by the looks. You are doing your fakery again and still.

How is it that you go from reading and quoting people numbers as boat numbers for the pacific solution, but you go to reading boat numbers outside of the pacific solution.

you are either completely daft or completely dishonest.

Look at what you wrote and how dishonest you have been. You go from column 3 in the pacific solution timeframe, then somehow jump to column 2 outside of the pacific solution timeframe.

Column2 is the boat arrival numbers for both raw data. The reason they must have split was in order to put crew numbers in. People numbers is column 3 then column 4 on bottom raw data.

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« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:15pm by progressiveslol »

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Gist

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Re: Right wing refo rubbish
Reply #224 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 12:16pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

It is boats of course because the less boats, the less deaths of PEOPLE.

It is the boats that sink remember, not the people sinking first.

WRONG!

lol because you say so

So a person sinks before the boat does. come on you are laughable

Well, no, it's wrong because the numbers say so. Look at the attached chart. I've based it on that latest data found yesterday which goes to 2011. I even spent a little time prettying it up for you so you won't complain.

The blue and green lines show number of PEOPLE and number of BOATS arriving per year. People are plotted on the left axis, boats on the right.

BUT!

The interesting thing is the red line which shows the ratio of the two. It is showing how many people are on each boat arriving. It is pretty bloody clear that since 2005 this has been a pretty steady increase. MORE PEOPLE ARE SETTING OUT PER BOAT ALL THE TIME.

The less boats, the more people will get onto the smaller pool of boats. The safety of PEOPLE is unaffected at best. At worst, it is endangering them even more since the boats setting out will be even more overcrowded.

Now, if your heart bleeds for boats then great. You've done an excellent job as preventing some clapped out hulk from sinking at sea. It'll get to sink at anchor in harbour instead.

If your aim was to prevent people drowning then you have failed by focussing on boats.

Simple, eh? Grin

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Asylum_Seeker_Numbers.pdf (9 KB | 41 )

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