Australian Politics Forum - Why not stop the boats, Tony?

progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #285 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:39am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:36am:

That is not true, it is a perception cultivated in the media for a political advantage. We've heard all the propaganda, progs. The reality is that the greens are not a coalition party and are quite clearly prepared to vote against the government on matters of principle. The greens only have power when one of the major parties vote with them. In this case Abbott has voted with them to keep our borders open.

Is it an alliance?

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adelcrow

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #286 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:40am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:39am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:36am:

That is not true, it is a perception cultivated in the media for a political advantage. We've heard all the propaganda, progs. The reality is that the greens are not a coalition party and are quite clearly prepared to vote against the government on matters of principle. The greens only have power when one of the major parties vote with them. In this case Abbott has voted with them to keep our borders open.

Is it an alliance?

It sounds more like the Greens and Coalition are in alliance when it comes to many issues..they both get together to block Labors policies

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Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #287 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:41am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:04pm:

Its not 2007, we have page after page on what happened almost 6 years ago.

Looking at the poll everyone agrees that Abbnott is only in the way for political gain which is very obvious, the rest is window dressing.

Irrespective of 2007 when looking at today it is Tnoy who is ensuring that the boats keep on comming and it is no accident. The Abbnott preference is to keep them arriving right up to the next election.

It is up to the labor/greens coalition to stop the boats. If the labor/greens coalition cannot decide what it wants to do, then their policy fails.

There is no coalition between the Greens and Labor

just an agreement to support Labor on money bills and to no support no confidence motions which they do not raise themself. They are free to follow their own policies on all matters.

In other words your position is significantly flawed in fact.

The greens quite rightly do not support off shore processing, Labor want to go back to it as the lesser of two evils and the coalition absolutely love it to pieces.

Tnoy is opposing his own preferred solution for political gain.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition. There is a coalition between labor and the greens. The greens have lumped themselves with whatever labor do. Labor have lumped themselves with whatever the greens try to do or force labor to do.

A poor choice of coalition, is a coalition none the less.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition.

No its not an alliance either, there is an agreement on voting which allows Labor to Govern.

In an alliance or coalition the status is that both groups are in government and they both have government ministers and they both develope policy together. - this is clearly not the case

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #288 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:44am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:41am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:04pm:

Its not 2007, we have page after page on what happened almost 6 years ago.

Looking at the poll everyone agrees that Abbnott is only in the way for political gain which is very obvious, the rest is window dressing.

Irrespective of 2007 when looking at today it is Tnoy who is ensuring that the boats keep on comming and it is no accident. The Abbnott preference is to keep them arriving right up to the next election.

It is up to the labor/greens coalition to stop the boats. If the labor/greens coalition cannot decide what it wants to do, then their policy fails.

There is no coalition between the Greens and Labor

just an agreement to support Labor on money bills and to no support no confidence motions which they do not raise themself. They are free to follow their own policies on all matters.

In other words your position is significantly flawed in fact.

The greens quite rightly do not support off shore processing, Labor want to go back to it as the lesser of two evils and the coalition absolutely love it to pieces.

Tnoy is opposing his own preferred solution for political gain.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition. There is a coalition between labor and the greens. The greens have lumped themselves with whatever labor do. Labor have lumped themselves with whatever the greens try to do or force labor to do.

A poor choice of coalition, is a coalition none the less.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition.

No its not an alliance either, there is an agreement on voting which allows Labor to Govern.

In an alliance or coalition the status is that both groups are in government and they both have government ministers and they both develope policy together. - this is clearly not the case

They are both in government because in order to gain the alliance or voting guarantee , labor had to introduce the greens policy of the carbon tax. It is an alliance. That also makes it a coalition.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #289 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.
Back to top	Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings "What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions." IP Logged

Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #290 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:49am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:41am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 10:04pm:

Its not 2007, we have page after page on what happened almost 6 years ago.

Looking at the poll everyone agrees that Abbnott is only in the way for political gain which is very obvious, the rest is window dressing.

Irrespective of 2007 when looking at today it is Tnoy who is ensuring that the boats keep on comming and it is no accident. The Abbnott preference is to keep them arriving right up to the next election.

It is up to the labor/greens coalition to stop the boats. If the labor/greens coalition cannot decide what it wants to do, then their policy fails.

There is no coalition between the Greens and Labor

just an agreement to support Labor on money bills and to no support no confidence motions which they do not raise themself. They are free to follow their own policies on all matters.

In other words your position is significantly flawed in fact.

The greens quite rightly do not support off shore processing, Labor want to go back to it as the lesser of two evils and the coalition absolutely love it to pieces.

Tnoy is opposing his own preferred solution for political gain.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition. There is a coalition between labor and the greens. The greens have lumped themselves with whatever labor do. Labor have lumped themselves with whatever the greens try to do or force labor to do.

A poor choice of coalition, is a coalition none the less.

It is an alliance. An alliance is a coalition.

No its not an alliance either, there is an agreement on voting which allows Labor to Govern.

In an alliance or coalition the status is that both groups are in government and they both have government ministers and they both develope policy together. - this is clearly not the case

They are both in government because in order to gain the alliance or voting guarantee , labor had to introduce the greens policy of the carbon tax. It is an alliance. That also makes it a coalition.

Labor introduced the fixed carbon price policy and associated compensation.

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adelcrow

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #291 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:50am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government.

An ETS was Liberal policy until Robb, Heffernan and Tuckey chucked a wobbly

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #292 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

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adelcrow

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #293 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:57am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

Your not gonna like Abbott having to do deals with the Greens if he ever gets into power..its politics.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #294 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:57am And a carbon tax was Abbott's preference. Now he won't stop the boats and wants to introduce a massive direct action policy that is nothing more than pink bats on steroids. The public see through the shallowness and trickery, the only thing saving him are his big mouth mates in the media.
Back to top	Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings "What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions." IP Logged

MOTR

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #295 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:00am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

I've got no problem with you describing it as an alliance. Just like the alliance they have formed with the coalition on the asylum seeker issue. It is most certainly not a coalition.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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adelcrow

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #296 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:01am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:57am:

And a carbon tax was Abbott's preference.

Now he won't stop the boats and wants to introduce a massive direct action policy that is nothing more than pink bats on steroids. The public see's through the shallowness and trickery, the only thing saving him are his big mouth mates in the media.

Wait until Gina gets more shares of channel 10..it will be the Liberal Party propaganda channel for the year leading up to the election.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #297 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

I've got no problem with you describing it as an alliance. Just like the alliance they have formed with the coalition on the asylum seeker issue. It is most certainly not a coalition.

liberals are not in government and cant do deals with any party in order to introduce that parties policies. labor on the other hand has introduced greens policy in order to gain power and voting guarantees, thus creating an alliance, a coalition.

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MOTR

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #298 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:18am

As far as I'm concerned it is not a formal coalition. The greens do not have a presence in the cabinet and none have ministerial responsibilities. If it was a coalition they would be part of the executive arm of government. In the parliament they pick and choose what government sponsored legislation they want to back. The greens are an independent force in the house and have publicly offered to back coalition sponsored legislation.

The government has a workable plan to stop the boats. The Libs and Nationals have allied themselves with the greens to prevent this from happening. Tony doesn't really care about stopping the boats, he would prefer to use then as a means to an end.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #299 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:21am

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:18am:

As far as I'm concerned it is not a formal coalition. The greens do not have a presence in the cabinet and none have ministerial responsibilities. If it was a coalition they would be part of the executive arm of government. In the parliament they pick and choose what government sponsored legislation they want to back. The greens are an independent force in the house and have publicly offered to back coalition sponsored legislation.

The government has a workable plan to stop the boats. The Libs and Nationals have allied themselves with the greens to prevent this from happening. Tony doesn't really care about stopping the boats, he would prefer to use then as a means to an end.

And what makes the greens happy to have them die in large numbers?

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Poll
Question: Why has Abbott voted against stopping the boats.
Concern for asylum seekers 2 (8.3%) Political advantage 18 (75.0%) Other 4 (16.7%) Total votes: 24 « Created by: MOTR on: Jun 29^th, 2012 at 3:23am »