Australian Politics Forum - Why not stop the boats, Tony?

Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #300 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:39am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:18am:

As far as I'm concerned it is not a formal coalition. The greens do not have a presence in the cabinet and none have ministerial responsibilities. If it was a coalition they would be part of the executive arm of government. In the parliament they pick and choose what government sponsored legislation they want to back. The greens are an independent force in the house and have publicly offered to back coalition sponsored legislation.

The government has a workable plan to stop the boats. The Libs and Nationals have allied themselves with the greens to prevent this from happening. Tony doesn't really care about stopping the boats, he would prefer to use then as a means to an end.

And what makes the greens happy to have them die in large numbers?

With the Liberals the answer is political gain.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #301 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:40am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

I've got no problem with you describing it as an alliance. Just like the alliance they have formed with the coalition on the asylum seeker issue. It is most certainly not a coalition.

liberals are not in government and cant do deals with any party in order to introduce that parties policies. labor on the other hand has introduced greens policy in order to gain power and voting guarantees, thus creating an alliance, a coalition.

Oh The broken record approach - it must be right?

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #302 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:40am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:02am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

Pricing carbon was a Labor policy going into the last two elections. Delaying the ETS by 3 years and substituting it with a carbon tax in the interim was the comprimse that Labor made to form government. Labor governs with the support of the greens, not with the greens.

Yes, an alliance. Introducing greens policy.

I've got no problem with you describing it as an alliance. Just like the alliance they have formed with the coalition on the asylum seeker issue. It is most certainly not a coalition.

liberals are not in government and cant do deals with any party in order to introduce that parties policies. labor on the other hand has introduced greens policy in order to gain power and voting guarantees, thus creating an alliance, a coalition.

Oh The broken record approach - it must be right?

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #303 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:50am

Surely you gest that crikey of all places, would call an alliance an alliance, when in fact you suggest it isn't

scrutinising the labor-greens alliance

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/02/scrutinising-the-labor-greens-alliance/

Everywhere you look on left leaning information, the word alliance keeps cropping up. Is that because it isnt an alliance.

The Drum
Labor's desperate Greens alliance

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/29648.html

With an alliance being a coalition, I rest my case.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #304 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:54am Julia Gillard refuses point blank to defend Australia's borders and the security of its people. She allows foreign invasion of our territories and does nothing to stop it.
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Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #305 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #306 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

And introduced greens policy. You can only bring in policy if you are in government. The greens got their policy to be introduced by forming an alliance of good will, therefore they are in government. A silent partner if you will. A sell out to our nation.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #307 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:06pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

And introduced greens policy. You can only bring in policy if you are in government. The greens got their policy to be introduced by forming an alliance of good will, therefore they are in government. A silent partner if you will. A sell out to our nation.

SO the HR nichols society and the ACCI are in coalition with the Liberals when they are in government?

Gillard had agreed to put a fixed price carbon policy on the table for consideration. There have been many times where policy from minor parties have been picked up or supported by the government - it does not automatically put them in coalition.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #308 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:11pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

And introduced greens policy. You can only bring in policy if you are in government. The greens got their policy to be introduced by forming an alliance of good will, therefore they are in government. A silent partner if you will. A sell out to our nation.

SO the HR nichols society and the ACCI are in coalition with the Liberals when they are in government?

Gillard had agreed to put a fixed price carbon policy on the table for consideration. There have been many times where policy from minor parties have been picked up or supported by the government - it does not automatically put them in coalition.

It does when your number is being used in order to form government and your policy to implemented.

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adelcrow

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #309 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:13pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

And introduced greens policy. You can only bring in policy if you are in government. The greens got their policy to be introduced by forming an alliance of good will, therefore they are in government. A silent partner if you will. A sell out to our nation.

SO the HR nichols society and the ACCI are in coalition with the Liberals when they are in government?

Gillard had agreed to put a fixed price carbon policy on the table for consideration. There have been many times where policy from minor parties have been picked up or supported by the government - it does not automatically put them in coalition.

We are assuming by the neo cons logic that the Democrats were in coalition with the Liberals.
Mind you..that could be why they got booted out on their collective clackers Cheesy

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #310 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:13pm Anyway it is what it is. The greens are free to vote as they wish. Just as the Libs are free to vote against the greens and stop the boats. What is clear is that it's not as important to Tony as he has led you to believe.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #311 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:17pm The Greens are dangerous extremists, complete ratbags...
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Dnarever

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #312 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:18pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Surely you gest that the favoured wikipedia is not correct.

A political coalition or political alliance is an agreement for cooperation between different political parties on common political agenda, often for purposes of contesting an election to mutually benefit by collectively clearing election thresholds or otherwise benefiting from characteristics of the voting system or for government formation aftr elections.

I think this is the part you mean to point out which we are all aware of.

or for government formation aftr elections

And it is true this was one of the options which would have been available to the greens and independents had they chose to go that way.

Instead they went for a deal to support the Labor government (not their coalition) on certain terms and conditions in regard to support for money bills and refusal to support rogue no confidence motions.

The Greens and independents are not expected to vote with Labor on any other policies and have no function in government.

And introduced greens policy. You can only bring in policy if you are in government. The greens got their policy to be introduced by forming an alliance of good will, therefore they are in government. A silent partner if you will. A sell out to our nation.

SO the HR nichols society and the ACCI are in coalition with the Liberals when they are in government?

Gillard had agreed to put a fixed price carbon policy on the table for consideration. There have been many times where policy from minor parties have been picked up or supported by the government - it does not automatically put them in coalition.

It does when your number is being used in order to form government and your policy to implemented.

The Greens are in coalition with the Liberals in rejecting off shore processing?

The Green/Liberal coalition is in opposition to government policy which makes it non viable.

We seem to have a duel coalition.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #313 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:20pm Using progs' definition you are technically correct.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #314 - Jul 7^th, 2012 at 12:22pm There is always good people and bad people in the world and the Greens are just very bad people. They are devious, malicious and not to be believed...
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Poll
Question: Why has Abbott voted against stopping the boats.
Concern for asylum seekers 2 (8.3%) Political advantage 18 (75.0%) Other 4 (16.7%) Total votes: 24 « Created by: MOTR on: Jun 29^th, 2012 at 3:23am »