Australian Politics Forum - Why not stop the boats, Tony?

longweekend58

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #60 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

i dont think you really understand the workigns of parliamentary government. the ones blocking labors refo pla (if youcan call it that) are the GREENS. the GREENS are the ones in coalition with Labor - not Abbott. Abbott is the OPPOSITION leader and is under no obligation whatseover to support any govt policy.

the situation of a hung parliament seems to confuse you. Gillard has to negotiate most of her policies. this is no different except this time she cant get it. This is called COMPROMISE - something she knows nothing about.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony? Reply #61 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:52pm Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:56pm: The Pacific Solution was a failure. That's something that apparently everyone except righties are capable of understanding. only you and similar dimwits think that. egverybody else without a political axe to grind says it was a spectacular succes - which it was idiot
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Gist

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #62 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

The Pacific Solution was a failure. That's something that apparently everyone except righties are capable of understanding.

only you and similar dimwits think that. egverybody else without a political axe to grind says it was a spectacular succes - which it was

idiot

You know, you really shouldn't sign your posts as "idiot". We do all know that about you of course, but we try not to say it out loud. But when you sign your posts that way ... well... you'll never stop being a laughing post if you do that.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #63 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:18pm

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

The Pacific Solution was a failure. That's something that apparently everyone except righties are capable of understanding.

only you and similar dimwits think that. egverybody else without a political axe to grind says it was a spectacular succes - which it was

idiot

You know, you really shouldn't sign your posts as "idiot". We do all know that about you of course, but we try not to say it out loud. But when you sign your posts that way ... well... you'll never stop being a laughing post if you do that.

idiot.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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progressiveslol

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #64 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:37pm

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:25pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:19pm:

That policy you created has you (daft) written all over it, not me.

Oh, don't be shy like that. You scheme is brilliant! ONE boat would cut the numbers to ONE SEVENTH what Howard was able to manage. Sheer brilliance!

Self promotion still does not make your policy any better.

I see you're self-effacing to a fault but it wasn't my policy. I have to admit I was addled by numbers of people. It took a refreshing shower a little while ago to wake me up to your brilliance - numbers of people is stupid! Who cares about that? Cut the number of boats - that's all that counts!!

I've heard that Gillard has already asked that your plan be forwarded on to Angus Houston. Don't be surprised if it's the centrepiece of their recommendations in a few weeks time. With proper planning they could charter one of the cruise ships to do a sweep of the Indian Ocean during their regular passage here for the cruise season. Easy peasy!

You could get a gong next Australia Day!! Shocked

I am trying to set your plan up but just need you to refine it for me.

I have it in pseudo code for now, but will get it all together after your input.

1. 49 people per boat is less than 29
2. Less boats sink if you have 130 or more boats per year than if you had less than 10 boats per year
3. Trends can be shown from 1 boat
4. Trends from 7 boats count the same as trends from 130 boats
5. 134 boats per year non-pacific solution, is better than 7 boats per year tops of the pacific solution

Thats all I have of your policy for now. You cant be sure I will use any of your other brilliant mathematical suggestions you make from here on, but I will be sure to give them the deep consideration they deserve.
Grin

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tonegunman1

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #65 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:04pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

That's right Abbott is opposition not government but an opposition is not a rubber stamp for the government. The electorate did not give Gillard a majority so she cannot as many before her have done both Lab and Lib just ram through whatever policy she likes. Abbott has every right to vote against policy he regards as bad...if he did not he would not be discharging his duty as a representative. Same deal with Gillard she does not have to adopt opposition policy. However she is only PM because she did a deal, not with the Australian people, but with the Greens and independents (excluding Katter).

But neither Gillard or Abbott are responsible for the deaths...responsibility lies with the people themselves that get onto leaky unseaworthy boats.

Of course she could call an election on the issue...but I doubt she will do that either.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #66 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:22am

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:37pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

Yeh yeh. If labor wanted to save lives like liberals do, then she would pass a policy that would save lives, has a track record of a raging success. She would not at this stage in the game, play experiments(malaysia policy) against peoples lives.

Pacific solution is called solution because it is.

malaysia policy is a policy, an experiment, not a solution.

If abbott wanted to save lives he would let the government do their job.

SOB

Abbott knows what will save lives. It is on record. In raw data.

And nobody knows if gillards policy will save lives because it hasnt been tried. Its a governments prerogative to try new policies.

Like i said howards policy was inhumane. Thats why it was removed.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #67 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:26am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

i dont think you really understand the workigns of parliamentary government. the ones blocking labors refo pla (if youcan call it that) are the GREENS. the GREENS are the ones in coalition with Labor - not Abbott. Abbott is the OPPOSITION leader and is under no obligation whatseover to support any govt policy.

the situation of a hung parliament seems to confuse you. Gillard has to negotiate most of her policies. this is no different except this time she cant get it. This is called COMPROMISE - something she knows nothing about.

You are trying to sidetrack my point. ABBOTT is the one that is all over the media saying she should reinstate howards policy. the greens are who abbott actually tried (lamely)} to negotiate with.He wont negotiate with labour @ all but if he did the greens could be gotten past and lives supposedly saved.

The government is not obligated to go with anyone elses policies - not abbotts Or greens. IMO they should adopt the greens policy but they are under no obligation to. The greens and especially abbott are obligated to negotiate with her and help her pass something to supposedly save lives.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #68 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:27am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

The Pacific Solution was a failure. That's something that apparently everyone except righties are capable of understanding.

only you and similar dimwits think that. egverybody else without a political axe to grind says it was a spectacular succes - which it was

idiot

It was inhumane.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #69 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:30am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

That's right Abbott is opposition not government but an opposition is not a rubber stamp for the government. The electorate did not give Gillard a majority so she cannot as many before her have done both Lab and Lib just ram through whatever policy she likes. Abbott has every right to vote against policy he regards as bad...if he did not he would not be discharging his duty as a representative. Same deal with Gillard she does not have to adopt opposition policy. However she is only PM because she did a deal, not with the Australian people, but with the Greens and independents (excluding Katter).

But neither Gillard or Abbott are responsible for the deaths...responsibility lies with the people themselves that get onto leaky unseaworthy boats.

Of course she could call an election on the issue...but I doubt she will do that either.

Why an election? Why not a referendum? Because everyone knows the greens would win.

SOB

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tonegunman1

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #70 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 7:51am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 6:30am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

That's right Abbott is opposition not government but an opposition is not a rubber stamp for the government. The electorate did not give Gillard a majority so she cannot as many before her have done both Lab and Lib just ram through whatever policy she likes. Abbott has every right to vote against policy he regards as bad...if he did not he would not be discharging his duty as a representative. Same deal with Gillard she does not have to adopt opposition policy. However she is only PM because she did a deal, not with the Australian people, but with the Greens and independents (excluding Katter).

But neither Gillard or Abbott are responsible for the deaths...responsibility lies with the people themselves that get onto leaky unseaworthy boats.

Of course she could call an election on the issue...but I doubt she will do that either.

Why an election? Why not a referendum? Because everyone knows the greens would win.

SOB

Politicians only have referendums where they either are all but certain of the result, there are limited options or where it does not matter to them one way or the other.
I'm probably on safe ground in holding that this will never be a referendum question in the current climate.

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Gist

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #71 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 8:31am

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:25pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 7:19pm:

That policy you created has you (daft) written all over it, not me.

Oh, don't be shy like that. You scheme is brilliant! ONE boat would cut the numbers to ONE SEVENTH what Howard was able to manage. Sheer brilliance!

Self promotion still does not make your policy any better.

I see you're self-effacing to a fault but it wasn't my policy. I have to admit I was addled by numbers of people. It took a refreshing shower a little while ago to wake me up to your brilliance - numbers of people is stupid! Who cares about that? Cut the number of boats - that's all that counts!!

I've heard that Gillard has already asked that your plan be forwarded on to Angus Houston. Don't be surprised if it's the centrepiece of their recommendations in a few weeks time. With proper planning they could charter one of the cruise ships to do a sweep of the Indian Ocean during their regular passage here for the cruise season. Easy peasy!

You could get a gong next Australia Day!! Shocked

I am trying to set your plan up but just need you to refine it for me.

I have it in pseudo code for now, but will get it all together after your input.

1. 49 people per boat is less than 29
2. Less boats sink if you have 130 or more boats per year than if you had less than 10 boats per year
3. Trends can be shown from 1 boat
4. Trends from 7 boats count the same as trends from 130 boats
5. 134 boats per year non-pacific solution, is better than 7 boats per year tops of the pacific solution

Thats all I have of your policy for now. You cant be sure I will use any of your other brilliant mathematical suggestions you make from here on, but I will be sure to give them the deep consideration they deserve.
Grin

I'll be going on a boat today lolly. Several in fact! One of those boats will have one person on it - just me! Others will possibly have dozens. But you can of course ignore that little complication in your pseudo code. It's only the boats that count of course. My dinghy with me... the ferry with dozens... all the same really...

Will you come rescue that hulk that I mentioned? I should be going past it today. I'll let you know if it is still afloat. I'm sure it will be deeply grateful if you were to come save it.

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MOTR

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #72 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:01am

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

Yeh yeh. If labor wanted to save lives like liberals do, then she would pass a policy that would save lives, has a track record of a raging success. She would not at this stage in the game, play experiments(malaysia policy) against peoples lives.

Pacific solution is called solution because it is.

malaysia policy is a policy, an experiment, not a solution.

Progs, why would interning people in Malaysia be less effective than interning people in Nauru.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #73 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:04am

MOTR wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

Yeh yeh. If labor wanted to save lives like liberals do, then she would pass a policy that would save lives, has a track record of a raging success. She would not at this stage in the game, play experiments(malaysia policy) against peoples lives.

Pacific solution is called solution because it is.

malaysia policy is a policy, an experiment, not a solution.

Progs, why would interning people in Malaysia be less effective than interning people in Nauru.

This is why...

Had the Coalition voted for the Gillard/Oakeshott bill, we wouldn't have seen the boats stop. Nor would they have even slowed. We would have seen the number of arrivals increase due to the stupidity of the bill. Under the terms of the agreement, we would send to Malaysia 800 of these boat people per year. In the last eight days there have been seven boats carrying 656 people. Had we not seen so many lives tragically lost, that number would probably be close to 800. So in two weeks, the Malaysia deal would be less than useless. What would we do for the other 50 weeks of the year? Onshore processing? That's what we have now and clearly it is making matters worse, not better. Offshore processing? Sure, that could work if Gillard hadn't killed off a Coalition bill that would have allowed just that.

No, the problem here most certainly is not Tony Abbott nor any member of the Coalition. The one and only place where the blame lies is with this ALP government. Rudd dismantled the highly successful Pacific Solution and since then we've seen Labor blunder from one incompetent policy to another. Gillard clearly has no idea, or else she wouldn't turn to Angus Houston for help. That is not the actions of someone worthy to be our PM. She should lead, but cannot. She should have a plan, but does not. She should call an election. Now.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Why not stop the boats, Tony?
Reply #74 - Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:06am

MOTR wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

this is complete bulls1t. abbott is opposition not government. he has no right to block gillards policy and insist she use his. she is pm. her policy is the one that he needs to let pass to save lives.

The assumption here that abbotts policy should pass is wrong. Gillard is the government. Her policy should pass and abbott is blocking it. He is responsible fpor the deaths - all in the name of politics.

Of course imo the greens idea is the best but they arent the goernment either and also cant demand thier policy be adopted.

Howards policy was removed because it was inhumane. Reinstating it is more inhumane because now we know its inhumane. Malaysia is just as bad but the government has the call. Not abbott. He is just obstructing.

SOB

Yeh yeh. If labor wanted to save lives like liberals do, then she would pass a policy that would save lives, has a track record of a raging success. She would not at this stage in the game, play experiments(malaysia policy) against peoples lives.

Pacific solution is called solution because it is.

malaysia policy is a policy, an experiment, not a solution.

Progs, why would interning people in Malaysia be less effective than interning people in Nauru.

Also, this month has seen 1,641 arrivals. The Malaysia deal is useless in just over a week. Swan budgeted for 450 arrivals per month. We're currently getting nearly four times that.

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Poll
Question: Why has Abbott voted against stopping the boats.
Concern for asylum seekers 2 (8.3%) Political advantage 18 (75.0%) Other 4 (16.7%) Total votes: 24 « Created by: MOTR on: Jun 29^th, 2012 at 3:23am »